Red shirts reclaim 1932 coup anniversary to advance cause
As Sunday's 80th anniversary of the June 24, 1932 coup approaches, Thai society has seen a steady revival of interest - especially among red shirts - in the day that marked the end of absolute monarchy, and whose date served as Thai National Day for two decades.
Red shirts will hold a mass demonstration on Sunday. On Monday this week, a group of Thammasat and Chulalongkorn University students wearing pseudo-1930s military uniforms gathered in front of Army Headquarters to urge the military to stop staging coups d'etat for good. The lyrics and music of the "June 24 National Song", of which most young Thais are unaware, were uploaded on pro-red shirt thaienews.blogspot.com. Someone also tweeted a link to 37 online books written by or about Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt, for free download. Two years after the red-shirt June 24 Democracy Group led by Somyos Prueksaksemsuk called for the re-designation of June 24 as National Day, the debate continues.
Chulalongkorn University historian Asst Prof Suthachai Yimprasert, himself a red shirt, said the revived interest is something new and has to do with the 2006 coup.
"After the coup, people recognised that democracy was under siege and they went back to search for the meaning and origin of democracy [in Thailand]. Events [commemorating] June 24 have grown bigger year by year [since the 2006 coup]," said Suthachai. He added, however, that all activities related to the day have been organised by private groups and citizens, in contrast to the period between 1938 and 1960, when they were organised and celebrated by the state as National Day.
On June 4, 1960 dictator Field Marshal Sarith Thanarat ended the status of June 24 as National Day and reassigned HM the King's birthday, December 5, as the date for the national celebration. Suthachai thinks the date is problematic, as December 5 is celebrated today as both Father's Day and the King's Birthday, and the connotation with National Day is simply not there.
Suthachai argues that since Sarith was a dictator and coup-maker, his order should be regarded as void and June 24 should be recognised again as National Day, while December 5 can continue to be celebrated as HM's birthday.
While such a debate is still in the nascent stage, Suthachai decries the lack of proper teaching at primary and secondary levels about the June 24 revolt. He said some of his university students do not even know who The Promoters, who staged the bloodless revolt in 1932, are.
Prominent red-shirt writer Wat Waulayangkul said Thais have almost forgotten June 24 because the powers that be and royalists do not see it as beneficial to promote the memory and history of the 1932 revolt.
Thai society, said Wat, has been made "to forget" that June 24 was once National Day.
"I still recall that as a child I was given an amulet coin to mark the National Day by my grandfather," said the 57-year-old writer, who added he is old enough to recall the day being celebrated as National Day. "It's not just a coin, but the whole ideology embedded in it that has been distorted so power won't belong to the people."
In the Thai-language book "The Changing World View of Thai Elites From the Rama V Era to 1932", author and anthropologist Attachak Satyanulak noted that the changing consciousness regarding history in the aftermath of 1932 was that ordinary people began to recognise that they, too - not just royals - contributed to the process of nation-building, and that great men can also come from a common background.
Nearly 80 years on, the modest bronze plaque marking the spot where the June 24 revolt took place, set in concrete in the ground at the Royal Plaza - and exposed to automobile traffic - is considerably tarnished. Suthachai is against removing it as a way of protecting it, however, fearing it would not be replaced in any way.
Chulalongkorn University political scientist Trakoon Mechai warned, however, that red shirts should not attempt to monopolise the memory of the June 24, 1932 revolt, or act as its sole custodian.
"You can champion it, but you shouldn't monopolise it. Others have the right to invoke [June 24] too," said Trakoon, who added that although the memory of June 24 has receded over the decades, red shirts have intentionally chosen to revive the date to symbolically advance their struggle. The debate about June 24 versus December 5 as the country's national day is another aspect of the struggle over national symbols witnessed by Thai society today.
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Great news! Thanks, Pravit. I
Great news! Thanks, Pravit. I followed your reference and found 24th of June Song. What a treat. Thanks again.
Once again "liberal" Pravit,
Once again "liberal" Pravit, writing for the extreme rightwing Nation, evokes his own latent fear of both the Red Shirts and the Thai masses actually taking a role as an agent of social change and progress.
How on earth are the Red Shirts monopolising anything?
And why haven't the likes of Pravit and his fake apolitical "liberal" buddies evoked the memory of 1932 in a similar way before and who is stopping them from doing so now? Or do they realise what a complete irrelevance they are so prefer to stand on the sidelines whining?
The Red Shirts have just moved into the space left empty by the vacant posturing of Thai "liberals" like Pravit. These liberals have failed to create any meaningful or sustainable democratic political alternative for ordinary Thais so why on earth should they listen to them now?
I am finding the personal
I am finding the personal argument with Pravit tiresome. The article made some useful points about reclaiming a past that has been actively erased by royalists. That he cites a contrary view on the red shirts is also, in my view, useful.
The problem for the royalists is that they simply cannot claim any of the 1932 space unless it is the fascist-military space. But even there, Pibul was anti-monarchy.
I like Andrew's blog posts and find them useful. I also like and appreciate Pravit's reports. Thanks to both of them for their work.
It's my view that Pravit's
It's my view that Pravit's rightwing libertarianism, spoken from a position of privilege and via an extremist rag like The Nation, is indicative of how warped the discussion on Thailand is. From where I am standing what's extraordinary is that anyone who considers themselves a "progressive" would buy his insidious false equivalencies.
As for personal, I guess I do take it personally when someone who claims to want to "raise the level of the discussion" helps promote an internet troll who sent death-threats to my family.
I wasn't seeking a debate. I
I wasn't seeking a debate. I was expressing frustration with two commentators I find useful and interesting engaging in a "debate" that is tiresome and conducted in unseemly terms and that is appears based mostly in personalized conflicts.
Albert I questioned Pravit's
Albert
I questioned Pravit's ideas and what he writes. He responded by promoting an internet troll who had sent my wife death threats. So yes, that's deeply personal.
My view is that Pravit is a bit of a phoney and needs to be pressed on his supposed "liberal" thinking, which, when questioned falls apart and he reverts to being exactly like the PAD-types who own his newspaper.
Even on his recent panel appearance he let a complete mis-truth stand without correcting it. Lisa Gardner said Pravit has been charged with lese majeste. This is simply untrue and Pravit knows this to be untrue. Did he correct her? No.
http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3251 (from 2min 40sec)
A complaint has been levelled against Pravit which is 99.9999% unlikely to transmute into a charge. When I asked him if he'd received correspondence from the police on the matter Pravit said "I don't understand the process." First of all how can a journalist who is supposedly a champion of the anti-LM campaign have no understanding of Thailand's judicial processes? Secondly, surely it damages those who've genuinely been charged to have someone from Pravit's very privileged position grandstanding in this way?
So, while I respect your desire not to "debate" about this, I think it is important to state that my criticisms of Pravit are based on the views/ideas/arguments he presents and I certainly wouldn't rely on using those who've engaged in hate campaigns against his family to "win" any argument.
Even my criticisms of Pravit here focus on his seemingly endless task of raising false equivalences regarding the Red Shirts. From claiming that the Red Shirts have monopolised the 1932 anniversary to other claims that Red Shirts not liking criticism of Thaksin is equivalent to lese majeste (I asked him to substantiate this with quotes from Reds asking for such a law to protect Thaksin - he admitted he had none) or that a single young Red Shirt woman holding a placard has some equal standing with the Manager media group, Pravit's litany of falsehoods and false claims needs to be critiqued.
It seems to me the ones to
It seems to me the ones to watch are the UDD 'leadership' ... will they even mention the Judicial Coup? Will they stroke the redshirts with more soothing talk to 'wait and see', then send them home to bed? It's been nearly a year now.
The people of Egypt, faced with their own judicial coup, have not gone home or gone to bed.
Yingluck has just 'acknowledged' the primacy if the Judicial Coupsters, saying the judgment on basing foreign forces and aircraft in Thailand at U tapao is 'Up to them' ... meaning the "The Foreign Ministry, the armed forces and the Council of State are looking at the issue." ... not the parliament, as specified in both the 2007 military charter and the 1997 Thai Constitution.
I certainly hope that the six samurai of the Khana Nitirat play prominent roles tomorrow. It's time for a return to the roots of the Khana Ratsadon and the Siamese Revolution and it seems time to start organizing a new election to elect a government representative of the people as well.
PPT has a remarkable posting
PPT has a remarkable posting on the continuing judicial coup here in Thailand.
The time to stand up to the Royal Thai Army was right after the election, nearly a year ago now. Failing that the last chance to stand-up to the Royal Thai Army was after its dismissal of parliament via the court at the beginning of the month.
Phue Thai has failed utterly, completely, and continuously since its election.
Things are going South very quickly now, apparently.
The thing to do now may be to use the upcoming dissolution of the Phue Thai Party as the occasion of a new election and this time to make opposition to the Royal Thai Army and its perpetual coups THE front and center issue to be decided. The only way to defeat the Royal Thai Army is to stand up and face them down.
Anyone whose family has
Anyone whose family has become subject to threat and/or public hatred feels a lot differently than those who have not been so subject. Keeping postings rational and to the point may not be as simple as it seems in those circumstances.
Quite - unfortunately Pravit
Quite - unfortunately Pravit responded to my criticisms of his views by promoting an internet troll who had previously distributed photos of a dead, mutilated woman entitled "Spooner's wife".
When questioned why he did this Pravit said something along lines of "why can't you be ridiculed?"
Dear Spooner, Would you be
Dear Spooner,
Would you be kind enough to provide the public with evidence that the certain Twitter Account @Androo_spewner that I did mentioned on one of my tweets as making a mockery of you had in fact sent you and/or your family death threat? I have been demanding the proof from you several times on Twitter and you have so far failed to produce any.
Once such evidence is provide, I would be more than happy to denounce the said Twitter account. I also suggest that you take the matter straight to the police right now and let us all know about the progress about the 'death threat'.
It is wrong to accuse someone of making such serious threat without providing a shred of evidence.
Pravit (this response is in
Pravit (this response is in two parts)
There are two issues here.
First of all you still haven't answered my criticisms of you in any meaningful way - why did you allow Lisa Gardner to misrepresent the facts of your lese majeste complaint? Have you been charged yet? Why do you claim you don't know anything about the judicial and legal procedures of someone facing a lese majeste complaint? Why have you failed to provide evidence that the Red Shirts act the same as the ultra-royalists? Why do you continue to support the rights of big media, like Manager group, to stalk single young women?
Secondly, when I put this to you your response was to promote a twitter account that said about me "#WhatUniversityHasTaughtMe How to suck cocks" and which was forced by twitter to remove dozens of other weird sexual comments about myself. To be honest I would find this all ridiculous except that I am certain, beyond all doubt, that the anonymous person behind this account sent my family death threats.
I've pointed out to you previously that a British expat was arrested in the UK for issuing threats and harassing me and my family. The evidence for that is with the UK police. I've previously sent you evidence of the death threat photographs that were made against my wife and did so several months ago. I've pointed out to you that this person using "@androo_spewner" repeatedly tweets exactly the same tweets as the one that directed death threats to my wife, appeared at exactly the same time the original account sending death threats was removed by twitter, and that a 3rd party, who knew the person involved in the account that was sending death threats, also told me it is one and the same person.
Yet still, despite all this, you demand some kind of "proof". What proof would convince you? A video recording of the troll actually writing the threats?
(2nd part of response to
(2nd part of response to Pravit)
There is no doubt that my family received death threats - you are promoting the troll that did this despite more than enough circumstantial evidence pointing to that. You promote this account because you can't answer my criticisms of you.
And now my criticisms of you extend beyond your usual unsubstantiated, badly thought through and faux intellectualism to accuse you of supporting people who've made death threats to my family.
Even more than that, your claims to want to "raise" the standard of the debate are once again reduced to the fraudulent basis upon which the rest of your positions rely. Why on earth would you even consider answering my criticisms by promoting an anonymous troll that makes weird and repeated sexual comments about me?
My view is this - you simply can't answer any of the criticisms I've levelled at you and resorted to quite a shameful and malicious use of hate-trolls to attempt to intimidate me.
It would be quite pathetic if there wasn't a nasty vindictive edge to it all.
Yet, as you've made it clear previously you support the rights of people to make death threats towards women so I suppose there is at least one consistent strand to your position.
(2nd part of response to
(2nd part of response to Pravit)
There is no doubt that my family received death threats - you are promoting the troll that did this despite more than enough circumstantial evidence pointing to that. You promote this account because you can't answer my criticisms of you.
And now my criticisms of you extend beyond your usual unsubstantiated, badly thought through and faux intellectualism to accuse you of supporting people who've made death threats to my family.
Even more than that, your claims to want to "raise" the standard of the debate are once again reduced to the fraudulent basis upon which the rest of your positions rely. Why on earth would you even consider answering my criticisms by promoting an anonymous troll that makes weird and repeated sexual comments about me?
My view is this - you simply can't answer any of the criticisms I've levelled at you and resorted to quite a shameful and malicious use of hate-trolls to attempt to intimidate me.
It would be quite pathetic if there wasn't a nasty vindictive edge to it all.
Yet, as you've made it clear previously you support the rights of people to make death threats towards women so I suppose there is at least one consistent strand to your position.
Dear Spooner, It is
Dear Spooner,
It is unfortunate to hear that you have yet again failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Twitter account that I mentioned did in fact sent you or your family any death threat. Thus there is nothing more that I can do to alleviate your concerns until a proof is provided. I cannot simply assume that the Twitter account that you accused of having sent death threat to your family did what you claim it did, until it is proven so.
As for Lisa Gardner's alleged 'misrepresentation' of me, while I cannot answer it on her behalf I was focused to talk about other aspects of the lese majeste law on that evening's symposium rather than to talk about the LM police complaint made against me as it was apparent on the video. I believed Gardner has also clearly written an article about the police complaint against me which is accurate to the current situation. Prachatai too has also written an article, both in Thai and English, about my situation, so please refer to them as a definite guide.
Also, please do not mistaken me as an expert on the judicial procedure of lese majeste law. I am not. If I can claim any expertise at all, it would be on my socio-cultural critique of the law and its repercussion on Thai society.
As for your accusation against me regarding my alleged support to ASTV-Manager Daily's 'stalking', please go back and refer to my article on prachatai entitled 'The Grey Area of Freedom of Expression in Thailand'.
Pravit You sat there on a
Pravit
You sat there on a public platform and deliberately and knowingly let someone present complete falsehoods about your case. You even did so afterwards by tweeting links to the video recording of the event without the caveat that Lisa Gardner got it wrong. Why would you do that? Why would allow your case to be deliberately misrepresented? Why do you then claim "oh, i didn't know, I was focused on something else"?
As for Lisa Gardner's article on Asian Correspondent I had to write to editorial and ask them to correct it as it originally claimed you had been charged.
Have you been charged yet? No. So why let people make repeated claims you have been without correcting them?
As for your "socio-cultural critique" - you can't even tell the difference between one Red Shirt sending you one single note and the brutality of the lese majeste law so I'm not sure it's worth the paper it's printed on.
Why did you respond to my criticisms by promoting a troll who made death threats to my family? I've previously provided you with evidence that such threats existed and given you clear guidance as to why I am certain it is the same person. Unless I can get the IP addresses of all the accounts involved - which would take a court order - absolute proof is impossible and even then people can hide IPs. However the style, content, methods etc are all identical. We've tracked this troll as best we can for the last 14months so we are certain, beyond doubt, it is the same person.
Your claim to want absolute proof is just your attempt to evade your responsibilities - that you deliberately promoted a troll that sent death threats to my family just because you were too thin-skinned to take my criticism. It is vicious and pathetic but quite in keeping with the extreme rightwing rag you write for.
I've read your article about ASTV-Manager stalking - you believe any regulation of such hate campaigns committed by the very powerful against the very powerless is "censorship". Once again the words "pathetic and vicious" come to mind. And, once again your "socio-cultural" critique is weak, uninformed and pretentious. Please read my response which demolished, completely, your "arguments".
I'd hate to think there was
I'd hate to think there was any latent xenophobia at work in this endless duo duel. Let's get the facts on the table next to the claims made, period. If someone did something, give a link to it and prove it. If someone does not first answer a question there is a bit of intransigence that may or may not be justified. From what most of us have seen to date, I fear, this accusation of threats and so on really needs to be supported with precise citations so res ipsa loquitur.
Frank I've publicly posted
Frank
I've publicly posted the photos of the mutilated female corpses with my wife's name underneath and also sent a copy to Pravit. I am not posting it again as it just re-circulates the same threat against my family - I'd be happy to email it to you if you wish to see it - you email me at asiaprovocateur@gmail.com and I'll send it to you.
This picture was posted by an anonymous troll called "@graphiccard" who then morphed into another username called "@dexedrine50mg" who had his account deleted by twitter.
This troll, as all trolls do, repeated exact patterns. These were the posting sexually abusive comments; the following of people on my twitter friends list who were then sent abusive comments about me; the repeat sending of a defamatory blog post written about me.
This pattern of "trolling" is akin to a "fingerprint" and this particular "troll" is the only one which has followed his pattern.
The exact same pattern has been followed by the troll that Pravit believes is just some parody of me.
Furthermore a source, who knows the person behind "@graphiccard/@dexedrine50mg", told me, directly, the @androo_spewner account is the same person.
So we have exact same pattern of tweets, same methods and style and a source confirming it is the same troll.
That is good enough for me.
And, in all likelihood, if your wife had been sent death threats it be good enough for you.
Apologies may be in order.
Apologies may be in order. Sometimes people make comments on things they know little about and regret it afterward - that's the story of my life!
We were threatened, by the way. Not a direct kill but a public "Kick them out of our beloved nation" campaign on community radio that authorities did the usual nothing about.
Listeners were incited to sign a petition to have us thrown out, even my Thai wife! All this by a fellow Thai and allowed to go on by Thai officials from the governor on up and on down. I think that as far as allowing a lot of things to go on that may in part be a failing on the part of the Thai psyche where the importance of making things factual, correct and representative just does not register. Hard to say about one's own motivations let alone someone else whose culture is different.
In particular to Thailand, (not to dismiss similar problems in the US et. al) so much is misrepresented and so little done about it that dozens of books have hardly been able to scratch the surface. When starting a serious work, sometimes the writer gets too depressed to continue. Of those few books that do shed light in a fair and meaningful way, they become banned instead of held up before what would surely become a grateful nation in the future once people see how they are behaving.
Anyway, keep up the good work and rest assured we all enjoy the academic works we have been able to read to date.
Frank Thanks for your
Frank
Thanks for your understanding. I've read some of your comments about what you endured before - it sounds like a terrible situation.
Of course threats have no place in any kind debate or argument whether made by proxies or directly.
To his shame Pravit has known for several months about the hate campaign against my family and I have supplied him with detail regarding that on many occasions. His denial of that now looks obtuse and a tad malicious.