UK govt asked questions about death of Ah Kong and LM
Four questions have been asked of the UK government by Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Kerry McCarthy MP (Britsol East, Labour Party) regarding the death of political prisoner Ampon Tangnoppakul AKA Ah Kong and the on-going situation vis a vis the use of lese majeste laws in Thailand.
As these are "named day questions" they should be answered by 21st May but a "holding" answer might be used instead until the UK government formalises its position and gives a more in-depth response at a later date (as the questions have only just been tabled I can't provide a link right now but will update tomorrow). The questions are as follows and are submitted directly to the government minister for his response -
- What representations has he made regarding the imprisonment and death of Ampon Tangnoppakul in Thailand?
- What assessment has he made of access to healthcare for prisoners in Thailand?
- What assessment has he made of the treatment of people a) arrested and b) convicted under lèse majesté laws in Thailand?
- What assessment has he made of the compliance of lèse majesté laws in Thailand with Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; and what representations has he made to the government of Thailand regarding freedom of expression and the lèse majesté laws?
The significance of these questions is that they mark a further internationalising of the lese majeste issue. They will also push the UK government into formalising its position not only on lese majeste but also regarding the healthcare and well-being of prisoners - issues that have particular pertinence after the death of Ah Kong.
I will return to this once the UK government has responded and hopefully will speak directly to Kerry McCarthy MP, herself.
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It is ONLY through
It is ONLY through international awareness and consequent pressure the LM laws in Thailand will ever be changed. In truth, unless addressed from outside Thailand's borders there is a risk the application of these laws will become even more stringent as the military and wealthy elite face other problems from the potential continued awakening of the people. This latter awakening is only in its infancy and the military has already tried to bring it to a sudden death.
In an interview this week with Aljazeera Yingluck completely misled the listener by suggesting the government was including the debate regarding article 112 as one of the topics of the ongoing constitutional amendments discussions.
We know this is a blatant lie as she and her government have publicly stated they would refuse to even discuss any such proposition even though by law, once the Nitirat group hands in its 10,000 signature-backed proposal for amending article 112, the government is obliged to do so.
Yingluck's recent Thai comment regarding the discussion of possible amendments to article 112 was "no way!".
Your faith in "international
Your faith in "international awareness and consequent pressure" seems ... touching ... Robald. I'm afraid it is misplaced. I agree with Ji Ungpakorn when he says ...
Robert Amsterdam ignores army killers
The world's elites care nothing for democracy and justice at home (House OKs Indefinite Detention of Terror Suspects)! As well, that lack of care is reciprocal. The Royalist Thai 'elite' in Thailand would like to arrange for approval from the internataional good ole boys club ... but it's just window dressing. The only thing that really counts to them, to all the GOBs in the Club, is holding onto power at any and all costs. They will always launch a massacre today when they feel it necessary, to say nothing of the now routine lese majeste Inquisition, and explain it all, like Wimpy, next Tuesday to the good ole boys at the club. They all forgive each other their transgressions in pursuit of 'national security'. It's written into the bylaws of the iGOB Club.
Change can only come from within Thailand. Change anywhere depends on the people on site, on those "with standing" as the lawyers say. On those with skin in the game. After all the hot air is expended, no one else ever really cares.
Who cares what the British
Who cares what the British government thinks? They are mass-murdering and torturing people with the Americans worldwide! The only reason they are talking about Akong is to use it as leverage to undermine nationalist elements in Thailand -as they've done since the beginning of the British Empire centuries ago.
Thanks Spooner for pointing out what a political lever this issue really is. By the way, what's the penalty for sending death threats to a head of state in England? I bet it involves either jail time or psychiatric help.
Now how long is Prachatai & Co. going to ride this unfortunate soul's corpse?
Tony Couple of points. These
Tony
Couple of points.
These questions were asked by an opposition minister not by the UK government.
I think it would be almost impossible that Ah Kong would've been found guilty in a UK court based on the evidence that was presented. I doubt it would've even got to court so thin was the case against him.
He also wouldn't have been prosecuted under a "lese majeste" law - defamation, even of the monarch, is a civil offence in the UK. However, given the evidence in this case it would be likely the police would've immediately realised Ah Kong wasn't the source and then investigated further.
Furthermore the "death threats" weren't sent to the head of state. They were sent to Abhisit's private secretary.
I'd suggest sticking to the facts of the matter and avoiding weak and false comparisons.
What is this constant
What is this constant dissembling by you Andrew? They were death threats directed at the head of state. But it doesn't matter who he made them to, or who he sent them to. Making death threats to anyone, about anyone, is a criminal offense.
AND, for the last year you've ALL been howling about how this was an issue of free speech and how he shouldn't go to jail for simply speaking negatively about someone. It was only until we found out indeed he was threatening people's lives, a real crime, that we began nit picking his criminal case.
I will be the first to agree that Thailand's justice system is flawed and that Akong's case was handled improperly, but the evidence was not "weak." It was his phone, from rallies he admitted he attended. Don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out.
I'd suggest sticking to objective journalism and stop shoehorning every event into your own personal political paradigm. I'd also suggest you stop flip flopping from this being about "free speech," to now that you know they were indeed criminal death threats, it's "judicial miscarriage based on procedure and lack of evidence."
No threat, dummy. A simple
No threat, dummy. A simple statement, that was it. That statement, by the way, applies to all of us mortals. We are all going to do it.
Secondly, there is no evidence he really sent those SMSs. Where have you been, Tony, under a rock? No, sorry. There you are. Standing beside the guy with the torch ready to burn the witch.
"We're going to stomp their
"We're going to stomp their faces in, tell them and their children they are all going to die." Context is everything, and people who purposefully twist context are liars. You, Brian, are a liar.
Second, it was his phone at rallies he admitted he attended. But this wasn't about a lack of evidence until it was found out he was making criminal death threats - which is why you've all been calling him "Uncle SMS" for a year and made this about 112 instead of poor judicial procedures.
The only thing worse than being wrong is very ungraceful backpedaling.
TC is not just a propagandist
TC is not just a propagandist but a stupid one.
He says: ""We're going to stomp their faces in, tell them and their children they are all going to die." Context is everything, and people who purposefully twist context are liars. You, Brian, are a liar. Second, it was his phone at rallies he admitted he attended."
I have already shown that neither statement is true. If TC could read the court decision he'd know this too.
So he continues to make things up. The court alleged that there were slanders of the royals and that was the decision. The court printed for messages, two of which TC combines into one and changes the meaning by using his words that make the sound threatening (something the court seems not to have done). And he continues to say that the messages were sent from rallies. According to the court documents, this is completely untrue. None of the messages originated from a rally. Rather, the court specifies a site outside the Bangkok area.
All of this has been stated here at Prachatai before, so TC is simply a lying fool and a bad propagandist for royalists and fascists.
Tony. You can call me many
Tony.
You can call me many things but please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting I should be an "objective journalist" when I consider anyone claiming to be one as being deceitful and disingenuous. I no longer even consider myself a "journalist" such are the limitations of that description.
And nope, I've always claimed that evidence against Amphon was paper thin. Not nit-picking. Would say that lack of evidence was a HUGE issue.
Here's something I wrote in Nov 2011 discussing, at length, the circumstantial evidence against Amphon
http://asiancorrespondent.com/70443/thai-grandfather-sentenced-to-20years-for-sms-messages-details-from-trial-emerge/
Also he was prosecuted under a law designed to curtail freedom of speech - not one designed to prosecute death threats.
I find it strange that since
I find it strange that since his arrest, you've all been calling him "Uncle SMS" if you never believed he sent the SMS's. Also, I watch quite a bit of DNN (Thaksin TV) and they still maintain he sent the SMS's but that you should be free to criticize Thailand's institutions. So there is a disparity amongst his defenders you might want to note and sort out - and that begins with admitting what he "allegedly" sent was not free speech, but actually criminal death threats.
And while I applaud you for admitting you are neither objective nor a journalist - how about dropping the other shoe and admitting you are a willfully misleading propagandist - because that is what you are.
Second of all - I myself have stated many times that the UDD leadership, as well as rank and file guilty of death threats and acts of violence, or leading/provoking/blueprinting such violence (Somyos) should be charged for such, insurrection, treason, etc.
Same goes for Prachatai - deceitfully taking money from abroad specifically to destabilize their own country, and in fact, working with the US State Department. That is also treason.
So if you want to at least be a balanced non-journalist, try admitting that what these people are being accused of are real crimes, but you disagree, as do I, with how they are being charged and tried. Then we might meet somewhere reasonably in the middle.
However, you are a Thaksin/UDD apologist, and you seem so willfully ignorant in contrast to your apparent intelligence, that deceit is the only logical conclusion I have left to draw.
What rubbish. TC is a
What rubbish. TC is a propagandist trying to appear rational when he is nothing of the kind. He claims to watch red shirt TV but he knows no Thai. We can know this because he can never tell us anything about any document, such as the court document in this case. He's a liar and a fraud.
Akong sent death threats -
Akong sent death threats - that's what's in the court documents - and even people in your own camp admit that's what it was - but have backpedaled (with much intellectual dishonesty) to the position that the judicial procedure/charges were inappropriate. That is - after a year of claiming it was about free speech, LM, and mere "insulting SMS's," hence the nickname, "Uncle SMS."
Clearly it was not about LM, it was about a lack of evidence for a very real crime that was committed.
I actually agree that the case was handled wrong - and have written about it twice, once last year, and again more recently. I even warned that it was foolish to draw conclusions about Akong's SMS's because they very well could have contained death threats (which they ultimately did). And I said that Thai law was flawed because such information was not made known.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/05/breaking-thai-political-prisoner-guilty.html
So what the judges decided is inconsequential - Akong should have been charged with sending death threats, not LM. Either way he still committed a crime punishable by years in prison. Similarly and ideally Somyos and Prachatai should be tried for treason, and Somyos for threatening communications, and insurrection as well.
And keep calling me names Albert - it only makes you and your point of view look immature and unreasonable.
I don't call you names TC. I
I don't call you names TC. I describe you and your posts with great accuracy. As ever, this post is a pack of lies and propaganda. As I said in another comment, the court document does not assert that death threats were sent. Rather they assert that the queen and others were slandered. You can't read it. You are a fraud.
Akong sent death threats -
Akong sent death threats - the documents cite word for word what Akong wrote - he made specific threats of violence against specific individuals - a criminal offense in ANY country, at rallies he himself admitted he had attended. What the judges made of it, after I already have made it clear I disagree with their proceedings is inconsequential.
Now that it turns out Akong wasn't guilty of exercising free speech, but rather sending threatening communications, punishable by up to 20 years in prison even in the West, you've backpedaled and dissembled after nearly a year of claiming it was about "free speech."
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
I warned you all last year to call this what it was - a procedural issue - but you were intent on using this man's poor judgement and his exploitation at the hands of the UDD as a political vehicle to advance your own selfish agendas. When you do that, you risk making monumental idiots of yourselves and in this case, you've succeeded in doing so.
Oh and notice, "Dear Leader" Thaksin was on the pitch kicking Akong's dead corpse around with you all - how very telling. But you're right, the UDD has "nothing" to do with Thaksin....
Image: Thaksin in the middle of having "nothing" to do with the UDD just last Saturday.
Stop hiding behind human rights and freedom - you stand for neither.
Sorry, but I've never
Sorry, but I've never referred to him as "Uncle SMS".
I don't care what you called
I don't care what you called him. This was about LM, 112, and free speech until we found out he sent criminally threatening communications. Now all the sudden it is about a lack of evidence?
You know exactly what the game plan was from the beginning, and to this day you are STILL using this man's poor judgement and the UDD's exploitation and tossing under the bus of him as a point of political leverage against the Thai establishment.
Sending death threats is a crime in any country and can get you up to 20 years in prison even in the West. If it was about procedural handling - like I said last year, you should have spoke up and said so. But you already used this man's tragedy for your own selfish political agenda, and there is no taking that back.
Look - even your last two articles about the meaningless opinions of the UK government revolve around "freedom of speech" issues and "disproportionate" sentences. How long do you go to jail in the UK for attending a violent rally and threatening the head of state? I'm think at least a few years if you are found mentally fit.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
I'm also very curious about your association with Prachatai - who accepts money from HRW, posts their "lies and hypocrisy," and even invited Sunai - who you particularly accused of being a liar and a hypocrite - as a panelist at their "anniversary" party this week.
Look more like you might be the liar and hypocrite, and at any rate, a backpedaler of Olympian talent.
JFL there is more in the
JFL there is more in the outside world than elites, albeit yes of course, counting on them would be ludicrous. PRESSURE needs to be put on them. Please do not feed Tony's insinuation this is a hopeless avenue simply because the Imperialist nations' "elites" are ruthless and indifferent.
By pressuring other countries some reactions can be brought about. Who cares about their elites! We must remember they play games selling their own systems with ideas about freedoms of expression and so forth. Play that game and use to to advantage. Do not ignore this just because they are hypocrites.
Whatever can help bring about change of article 112 should be welcome. Quoting "...the world’s elites care nothing for democracy and justice in Thailand." is absolutely correct but not as a call to drop the battle of garnering support through international awareness.
Thailand will absolutely not give a damn about this unless some sorts of pressure are brought from without. Change in Thailand without that is a pipe dream. The military/powerful/wealthy will never allow any change that threatens their stranglehold on the country. And article 112 is one of their most powerful weapons.
I think if you believe the change will come from Thailand alone seems...well..touching. It would be like still believing the Pheu Thai really still want meaningful change. I supported them as the lesser of evils but as they have clearly turned their backs on the people, I turn my back on them.
Nobody needs to dream the international community's elites give a damn. Did they give a damn about South Africa's apartheid? yet some groups were mobilized to help bring an end to it. NO ELEMENT of the struggle should be ignored. Even opportunistic ways of achieving the needed change is acceptable.
Yes, "who cares" about the
Yes, "who cares" about the history of imperialism and how they have divided and conquered nations all throughout history, or how they are doing exactly that in Thailand by backing Thaksin, his UDD mobs, and propaganda fronts like Prachatai....
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/02/empires-double-edged-sword-global.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
How do you believe ignoring or not turning your attention to a geopolitical reality is going to help your cause, even if it were noble (which it is not)? The UDD is Thaksin's mob confirmed once again last Saturday - Thaksin has worked for the "international elite," or the .01% before, during, and after his term in office.
Thailand has real problems, and there are real, apolitical, pragmatic solutions to solve them. Telling people to ignore that, and the fact that the "opposition" is completely compromised and directed by foreign interests sounds like intentional misdirection, and frankly, very bad advice.
Instead of filing into Bangkok to listen to "Dr. Thaksin," how about those people work together at home, apolitically, without colored shirts on, to fix education, infrastructure and their economic opportunities by leveraging technology and local collaboration?
"Even opportunistic ways of achieving the needed change is acceptable. " For a movement allegedly fighting for rule of law, that is an extremely hypocritical statement to make. No, the ends don't justify the means.
Tony. In your utopia will
Tony.
In your utopia will there be a central government? If so will it be elected or selected? Will we still have to pay taxes to the central government? Will the budgets for the military and the royal house hold be maintained at the present level? will we still get shot by the military?
Sorry everyone for engaging Tony. Sometimes I just can't resist.
Yeah it's really "utopian"
Yeah it's really "utopian" thinking to want people to receive a better education and to solve their own problems locally so as to reduce disparity between themselves and the government of elitists - regardless of party - that presume dominion over them. Especially when all the material needed to update/improve syllabuses are all available for FREE on the Internet, including world-class lectures on video.
And of course, suggesting that we improve education to enable people to be more independent politically and economically must mean I don't believe in national governments or any sort of tax. Of course, that is a false assumption on your part - I am an avid supporter of the modern nation-state.
But hey Betty, let's just settle for a dirtbag billionaire working openly for Wall Street and the global .01% perpetuating and exploiting poorly educated masses. Great plan, surely solidarity and equality will result.
Now, will the military shoot at "us.?" I don't know Betty, are you going to trigger violence by murdering 7 soldiers and countless bystanders in one night, with M16, M79s, M67s, and AK47's? If so, I can't make any promises....
HRW "Descent into Chaos" page 10:
"As night fell, renewed clashes erupted when the army attempted to move in on the Phan Fa camp and were confronted by well-armed and organized groups of armed militants affiliated with the UDD. Known as the “Black Shirts,” they fired M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at soldiers, and used M79 grenade launchers and M67 hand grenades at the Khok Wua junction and at the Democracy Monument, devastating army troops in the process. "
The same old tired lies by Prachatai & Co. Surely you are not suggesting HRW is lying are you? HRW which showers Prachatai (who graciously accepts them) with awards and accolades.
Hope you get paid well at least, to make such a fool of yourself Betty - like Prachatai does, millions of baht a year by convicted criminal Wall Street speculator George Soros and the US State Department...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Tony 'That is a false
Tony
'That is a false assumption on your part'
I wasn't assuming anything that's why I asked the questions. You didn't answer probably the most important one. In your utopia will the government be elected or selected?
FYI. I am not a Thaksin supporter. That is a false assumption on your part.
Some people say the military had their own black shirts on the street in 2010 and it is they that shot the solders. A full independent inquiry is required.
"Some people say the military
"Some people say the military had their own black shirts on the street in 2010..." Only UDD's international spokesman admitted that the black shirts intervened on the UDD's behalf. Seh Daeng likewise admitted the armed militants were actually working directly for him, before changing his story, but still admitting they were working for the UDD.
When the evidence points at the UDD, and then the UDD themselves admit it, that's what we call, "case closed."
Second, if a population is well-informed, well educated, have a large degree of local economic independence and use apolitical pragmatism to solve their problems, of course they are more than welcomed to elect their representatives. However, lacking a qualified electorate and still insisting on observing election results is incredibly dangerous and can create "mob rule," a tyranny identified by the ancient Greeks as being as bad as any other form of despotism.
I say local independence is essential, because any electorate that is dependent those they are voting for on a national level, cease being "represented" and always end up exploited. This is what is known as a political machine - and it is what modern "democracy" basically is. It is not ideal, it is not even sustainable.
It seems you are perhaps, 13-15 years of age. I suggest you stay in school, study hard, and put toothpicks in your eyes come history class. You suffer from profound ignorance - but being ignorant is only bad if you realize it, but do nothing to rectify it. Maybe after you graduate high school, we can have a more interesting debate. Peace!
Tony So no elections in
Tony
So no elections in utopia. Well not until the people have had a proper education. Who is going to decide when they have had enough education? You and who else?
The case on the black shirts is not closed just because YOU say it is. My goodness I have never known such arrogance.
Thanks for your advice.
I have been up all night reading the Thai version of history.
As you can see I have now awarded myself a Ph.D.
The one shred of evidence you
The one shred of evidence you presented regarding the UDD militants - simply put them under another military commander working for Thaksin - only proving my point and CONFIRMING they were working for the UDD. PhD huh?
And if you think "voting" alone makes a society free consider that the Soviets, Saddam, and even Hitler held elections. Obviously all forms of government have the potential to be benevolent and progressive, or destructive, including both dictatorships and democracies.
I find it hard to believe you have a "PhD" yet skipped past basic history along the way, and don't remember reading the Greeks already long-ago figuring this out. You can disagree with me as to what we should do about the problem of Thailand's electorate being unqualified, but you can't deny that they ARE unqualified.
They will vote for Thaksin over and over again, even after being convicted of crimes, implicated in mass murder and EVEN EXCEEDING HIS TERM LIMIT. People that unreasonable are not ready for elections. So you go on proving the UDD militants were in fact working with the UDD, but under a different commander so somehow claiming I'm wrong, and you keep arguing against improving education in this country.
And in the process, all you prove is that whatever educational credentials you claim to have, aren't worth the paper their printed on.
Oh and when the people you are accusing of a crime, with evidence in hand, then admit that indeed they committed said crime (the UDD leaders themselves admitted complicity in the black shirted militants) it is CASE CLOSED.
... as a call to drop the
No one is requiring you to end your efforts at effecting reform of Thailand by ... the European masses? The Greeks and Spaniards, perhaps? They seem to have their hands full at the moment, but maybe they have time to liberate Thailand. Certainly not the American masses ... we haven't even come to grips with our own plight.
No call to drop your battle ... just a call to reassess its effectiveness.
I never imagined that Puea Thai was anything other than a collection of terminally greedy opportunists surrounding The Terminally Greedy Opportunist. I never dreamed change would come from them, but from the people of Thailand, the red shirted people themselves. I certainly haven't changed my opinion. In fact this latest round of Ta Sawang, wherein they realize the depth of their betrayal by the TGOs, is going to be painful but helpful in the longrun.
It is true that once the US, the last holdout, stopped supporting Apartheid South Africa that the White Supremicist Regime there caved quickly. But there is no similar world-wide revulsion with Thailand at this point, and neither is Thailand dependent on the support of the US, or any other external regime. There are several other regimes that have captured the world's attention and revulsion, Israel comes to mind. When the US, the last holdout, does finally drop its support of that Apartheid regime it too will cave quickly. But that's not Thailand.
I think that the people of Thailand have their own future in their hands. They need now to take the reins of their own movement, to elect their own local leaders, and to snip the financial umbilical to Thaksin. They don't need his money. In fact it debilitates them, providing as it does for the present, crippling, external, "leadership" of their movement.
Democracy may be the goal but if it is to be realized it will be realized during the course of the journey toward itself. The Thai people are the only people, really, who have their own interests at heart.
We agree, I'm sure, Robald. I am just fatigued that so much attention seems paid to externals, which can never be decisive, and so little to the internals, which must be.
Education and pragmatism
Education and pragmatism could solve Thailand's problems very quickly. And the disparity alleviated by doing so will allow problems of elitism in whatever form it takes, to solve itself. You are not going to change Thailand by repealing 112, and "electing" a government that ends disparity through socialism - because the people "elected" into power gain directly from just that very disparity.
In the end, something well-meaning, and I have even said necessary at times, such as socialist policies, ends up being additional chains for an already disadvantaged majority.
Conversely, people empowering themselves through education, technology, local entrepreneurship and simply understanding they don't need leaders to solve their problems, or politics, but simply themselves and a pragmatic focus on real enumerated problems - will improve their lives and begin reversing the disparity that has prevailed for generations- here and abroad.
And can we stop fooling ourselves! Look at Europe and America - they are suffering because however gilded their cages may be, they are still in a cage, built of disparity, gilded with rhetoric of "democracy" and "freedom" when in reality they have neither. Just because they are better at dressing it up - we should aspire to that or beyond it?
Rational TC proposing a
Rational TC proposing a rational alternative political constitution for the world. Find out more at Land Destoyer and realize that it is like a rational Hitler proposing a rational Third Reich.
Land Destroyer links to Infowars.com which is Alex Jones.
Infowars.com accepts advertising from Midas Resources (http://www.midasresources.com/store/store.php?ref=62&promo=specialOffer) which is “One of the world's premiere precious metals firms, parent company of The Genesis Communications Network, proud sponsor of the Campaign For Liberty and creator of the Ron Paul Air Corps.”
Midas Resources was founded in 1996 by Ted Anderson. Ted Anderson and Alex Jones are collaborators, with Jones appearing on the Genesis Communications Network, where Anderson is the CEO (http://www.gcnlive.com/contact.php). It was established to promote the sale of precious metals (http://www.gcnlive.com/faq.php). GCN has interviewed right-wing, anti-Semite Lyndon LaRouche (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2008/interviews/080401jack_blood_genesis.html), seen as a political extremist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche). LaRouche also has a fan in another link at Land Destroyer in F.W. Engdahl, yet another conspiracy theorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._William_Engdahl).
Jones and Anderson have promoted conspiracy rants by people associated with the extremist John Birch Society (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101290003).
Land Destroyer links to a range of other conspiracy theory websites that never provide any details about funding. One of these is to the site of long-time conspiracy theorist Webster Tarpley who has a remarkable Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley). Another is to anti-fluoride, anti-vaccination, Bin Laden is alive (Alex Jones too), and conspiracy theorist Jim Corr who is also on about the threat or One World Government (http://www.jimcorr.com/).
Read these and know the extremist alternative TC proposes. Dig the pit, store the food and await Armageddon.
Are you actually arguing
Are you actually arguing AGAINST improved education, empowering the masses, and reducing disparity with technology, apolitical pragmatism, and innovation???????
Wow! WOW!
So I guess you expect us to believe the path to progress is perpetual political infighting, international institutions medicating it, with camps dividing into equally misled, exploited, ignoramuses trapped in an increasingly violent cycle of confrontation?
I'll have to guess, because instead of having an intellectual conversation about where you disagreed with me in my above comment, you've decided instead to launch an absolutely bizarre, off-topic, copy & pasted ad hominem attack against me.
Also, here you go - just to illustrate how despicably deceitful you are...
"Jim Corr: 'Osama Bin Laden has been dead for 10 years' "
Dead - as in not "still alive" as you accused him of saying. And Corr is simply referring to articles like this one out of the respected Daily Mail with headlines like,
"Has Osama Bin Laden been dead for seven years - and are the U.S. and Britain covering it up to continue war on terror?."
They in turn cite people like, former U.S. foreign intelligence officer Angelo M. Codevilla, a professor of international relations at Boston University. In other words, there is reasonable room for doubt regarding the official story of Osama Bin Laden, and many credible people have expressed that doubt over the years.
I hope you have the courage and the integrity to withdraw your comments about Jim Corr - a truly brave truth-seeker, and I hope you, the biggest fake hand wringer over "human rights" and political persecution, examine your conscience for the brazen display of hypocrisy you just put on.
He dared to speak out against the mainstream based on reasonable and credible doubts raised by intelligence and foreign policy professionals, and you slandered him, not even getting your story straight as to why you were slandering him. Between that and condemning calls for improving education, you're not disgraced?
Wonder what else you've got mixed up.
You are such a dope TC. Yes,
You are such a dope TC. Yes, indeed, have all readers look at
"Jim Corr: 'Osama Bin Laden has been dead for 10 years' " and judge who is deceitful.
But let's say that we accept your interpretation that in this case "Dead - as in not "still alive" as you accused him of saying." Then I would have thought that the SMSs you have been lying about, where a similar word is used should - if you are logical, and I realize that that is impossible - you'd read the SMS as you read Corr.
And, none of my comment was anything other than a statement of facts where you are damned by your links with racists and extremists on the right. You can scream and squirm but it is all factual with links. Simple and plain facts.
But, please! DON'T ever complain that I repeat stuff until you can cut out the repetitious posts that we have all read hundreds of times. You are the champion of repetitious personal attacks.
Something further to Betty
Something further to Betty Sproket's statement that "Some people say the military had their own black shirts on the street in 2010 and it is they that shot the solders. A full independent inquiry is required. "
One of those who seems to claim this is the Bangkok Post's army specialist, Wassana Nanuam . In her new book she describes the factional fighting between the Burapha Payak faction, lead by army chief General Prayuth, and the Wong Thewan faction. The reviewer says that "She offers an interesting insight into the shooting of soldiers at Kok Wua intersection on Ratchadamnoen Avenue in April last year by mysterious men dressed in black and armed with heavy weapons. The ambush, she says, was the result of a personal vendetta by an unspecified force of militants against Burapha Payak."
The full review is here.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/arts-and-culture/book/294362/factions-and-short-fuses
Thank you thomas. That's
Thank you thomas.
That's what I had in mind but couldn't find the link.
Again - UDD spokesman Sean
Again - UDD spokesman Sean Boonpracong already admitted the militants intervened on the UDD's behalf. Seh Daeng already admitted they were under his command. They were wearing UDD/democracy monument jackets - and they worked within the UDD mobs the ENTIRE time after April 10, camped primarily in Lumpinee Park.
And even in that link you posted - it says clearly "Wong Thewan stalwarts such as Gen Prin Suwannatat and ACM Sukumpol Suwanatat have sided with former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra." So this is exactly what I said - one way or another, Thaksin fielded militants - either rangers under Seh Daeng & Chavilit or mercenaries under the "Wong Thewan" faction. Either way, they were working with Thaksin.
What exactly is it you are trying to argue? This is exactly what I've been saying. Seh Daeng was a commissioned officer, but he was working for Thaksin. There are other officers also aligned to Thaksin, his brother is a general. So surely he can scrounge up some mercenaries with backgrounds in professional soldiering.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-wall-street-manipulates.html
When the UDD already admits it was them, and the military already claims it was the UDD, and all reasonable, and even some unreasonable third parties all agree that the militants were working for the UDD, and you still insist on making up conspiracy theories with evidence that still proves my point, you sound really desperate. I expect nothing less from a US State Department-funded propaganda front like Prachatai & Co.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
What I'm arguing, Tony, is
What I'm arguing, Tony, is that there be a full independent inquiry as Betty Sproket also suggested. The Truth and Reconciliation panel set up by Abhisit was and is a joke - they didn't even have the power to subpoenae witnesses. I believe they have requested operational plans from the army but haven't got them as the army politely declined their requests. The Yingluck government is doing no better.
Seh Daeng was assassinated. Colonel Romklao was assassinated. Nurse Kate was assassinated.
Those responsible - whatever their politics or affiliations - should be held to account.