How Some Ultra-Royalists Make Sense of the Death of Amphon (Uncle SMS)
Less than 24 hours after the death while in detention of Lese Majeste convict and prisoner of conscience Amphon “Akong” Tangnoppakul, better known as Uncle SMS in English, this writer has observed how some ultra-royalists make sense of the first death of Thailand’s prisoners of conscience, and it became clear that they will blame it on anything or anyone but the draconian and undemocratic law and themselves.
They can blame Amphon’s lawyers for having initially persisted in fighting the case in the Appeal Court and not immediately sought a royal pardon so Aphom could have been properly cared for. (It must be noted that prior to the death of Amphon on May 8, many ultra-royalists expressed satisfaction that Aphon and other prisoners of conscience are locked behind bars).
There’s also a conspiracy theory being floated to help them see the death and prior arrest of Amphon as something engineered by red politicians and the current Yingluck Shinawatra administration, in order to undermine the monarchy institution.
Some of these ultra-royalists say people should not exploit the body of Amphon by parading it on the streets or place the coffin in front of Bangkok Criminal Court although these ultra-royalists have never expressed any concerns for the well-being of prisoners of conscience, but supported the incarceration.
They also showed the lack of understanding on what criminalization of speech means, or what the notion of prisoner of conscience is all about. One even tweeted to me saying these people have the right to think, so they are definitely not prisoners of conscience. I reminded the person that they are in jail precisely because they expressed what they thought – and in the case of Amphon, who had allegedly expressed it to just one man who happened to be a personal secretary to then prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, during and right after the bloody crackdown on red shirts in 2010.
They seemed not to understand how the lese majeste law and the criminalization of speech is affecting fundamental freedom of expression and appeared determined to treat the monarchy institution above any criticism – like blasphemy against God in some religions.
They also appeared unable to differentiate between criticism against the lese majeste law from that of criticism against the monarchy, and tended to automatically conclude that anyone who criticize the law are outright republicans wanting to overthrow the institution. They think those who oppose the law are also on the payroll of the ousted and fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra and must be red shirts.
And while they whine about why some kept attacking the lese majeste law and whether such activity is tantamount to giving one-sided information and propaganda, they don’t seem to quite know how to describe the one-sided positive-only information about the monarchy fed to the whole nation through all mainstream mass media and educational institutions over the past 50 years. To them it’s ‘normal’.
They want to support the draconian lese majeste law which ensures self-censorship and censorship by mainstream mass media and want to insist that there’s no censorship on matters critical to the monarchy institution.
When I raised the issue as to why books like The King Never Smiles are not being discussed by the Thai mainstream mass media, why WikiLeaks and works based on it, like the one by Andrew Marshall, are not being debated publicly by the media or why Australian Broadcasting Corporation’s documentary on the monarchy are not being shared legally (with one man, Aekchai Hongkangwan, being briefly arrested and detained under lese majeste law for peddling CD copies of the ABC news and now fighting the case while on bail) they have no answer but to say all the information about the monarchy is false so it deserves to be banned or censored.
Do Thais have the right to decide and debate about the validity of the information publicly by themselves without risking almost certain imprisonment? Why?
These ultra-royalists, I’m afraid, are in a state of deep denial.
Print version
Send by email
Comments
The whining of the extreme
The whining of the extreme royalists over the "fuss" being made around the death of Ah Kong is very revealing of their rigid, backward way of thinking, very un-Buddhist, very extreme, not Middle Way at all. Their destiny and karma is something they might want to pause, step back and contemplate.
Like the extremists who ran the Spanish Inquisition or Stalinist Soviet Union or present-day North Korea. They are Thailand's "past", not Thailand's "future.
The news of Map Ta Phut, the
The news of Map Ta Phut, the men killed when the equipment they were assigned collapsed , now Amphon … to the Royalist Thai ‘elite’ the lives of ordinary Thais really are cheap, and ordinary Thais seem completely expendable in the 'elite' pursuit of money and power. To all the 'elite', the 1% world wide, of course; but the Thai ‘elite’ seem so smug, gleeful even, to enjoy watching the utter destruction of their perceived ‘underlings’ unfold. Elsewhere the 1% has some fear, and hence a modicum of grudging respect for its victims; but not here, not in Thailand.
The ‘elite’ are ‘embarrassed’, as The Nation says, to be seen to be as cruel as they really are … but it’s all about their image, about themselves, really. They really just do not care about the Thai people. About any people other than themselves. And when they feel they are among themselves they seem not at all embarrassed or apologetic about it. Seem celebratory, in fact.
Hey Pravit - guess
Hey Pravit - guess what?????????????
Poor old Uncle SMS made death threats to Thailand's head of state. That is punishable by 20 years in prison even under US, British, and EU law - not just "draconian" Thai law.
Under 18 USC § 876 - Mailing threatening communications - even if he sent that sort of smut to another average American, he would have faced up to 20 years in prison!
So it wasn't a case of free speech, it was a violent old man, part of a violent seditious movement, led by criminals and traitors like Thaksin and his troupe of demagogues.
Now I watch in amazement as even you, Pravit, someone who I though had more class, climb aboard the old man's corpse and sleigh ride down the hill of political opportunity.
How ghoulishly grotesque. Of course, for US State Department-funded Prachatai - this is their bread and butter.
In any other situation, I'd
In any other situation, I'd probably thank you for your knowledgeable info... but in this case, if you don't even have one speck of sympathy in your heart for the loss of life and the suffering of other people, why don't you just shut the ... up.
Hey FY, sorry you are
Hey FY, sorry you are emotionally compromised and thus blinded to the facts. If you read my work on Akong, you will see clearly that I do indeed have sympathy for not only him despite his making criminal death threats, but all the red shirt protesters who are purposefully incited by their reckless exploitative leaders who know they can make death threats on stage with absolute impunity while knowing full well anyone in the audience that joins them in their fervor will end up in jail and a political pawn.
SO by speaking the truth and exposing this - instead of attempting to ride Akong's corpse for political points, I'm trying to prevent another Akong from falling into the hideous trap UDD has laid out for them. They purposefully incited violence to get their own protesters shot up- got them to make comments, send threats, and commit crimes to purposefully get them locked up - then they wring their hands for sympathy - WHERE IS YOUR SYMPATHY FOR THESE PEOPLE????
Are you Israeli Tony? Here's
Are you Israeli Tony?
Here's my question for your supports.
He claims he has the evidence but won't share it. He hates death threats yet issues them himself. He hates nepotism yet loves hereditary monarchy. He hates secrecy yet keeps his identity secret. He hates the US army yet constantly boasts about killing kids in Iraq. He hates having his spam removed (sometimes up to 30 of the same posts on one article) and calls this an infringement on his freedom of speech yet he doesn't allow comments on his site. He hates foreigners commenting on Thai politics, yet he does it non-stop. He hates people who hide their income yet claims he has absolutely no expenses so can write for 2yrs for free and does not have to explain how he can afford to do it. This list is almost endless.
I can't trust any analysis of his especially after his support of lese majeste the coup and violent royalists.
What you can find out about him and why do you trust him?
Fascist & stupid are probably
Fascist & stupid are probably the two words that come to mind. How misinformed is thig guy to claim that his "death threads" would be punished in the same way in US, UK or other modern society. The meaning of context and the need to prove real intend completely ignored in order to make a futile attempt at rationalizing a draconian law that has been denounced by the very same civilizations he wants us to believe punish people like Uncle Sam in the same way.
If Tony's assertions that threads like these fare the same result in judicial systems like the US were true, we would have thousands upon thousands of right and left wing activists behind bars. The ability to express freely causes headachees to modern societies, but to express words of hatred or to make generic threads against public fgures is nothing but the begining of a lengthy investigation full of due process and the need to convince courts in order to seek warrants for the purpose of gathering sufficient evidence to warrant a successful prosecution.
And lacking evidence that his words could be followed by real criminal intend, a modern society would have been forced him to undergo comple medical and psychatric analysis to ensure that these comments were not the byproduct of mental instability or illness.
These differences are not just smal details we can ignore, they are the pillars of justice that allows an acccused person from defending his freedom of speach and freedom of thought to set them appart from dangerous and radical elements that are real threads to society.
This is hardly the judicial system we saw in this and countless other casees in Thailand, getting instead what could easily pass as an SNL parody on the judiciary of any banana republic, with judges supressing scientific evidence proving that SMS technology is very hackable, and yet allowing evidence that could be characterised at best as just hearsay.
How broken is a system of law when the best advice to legal experts is to plea guilty so that the convicted criminal can then make a petition for clemency and pardon? That's not far at all from the days of the Catholic Inquisition in which accused herectics were told to plea guilty in return for the salvation of their soul - in the afterlife of course. How convenient to ignore the claims of innocence just so that your agenda is proven rightous!
Akong said, "We're going to
Akong said, "We're going to stomp on your face," and "tell them they're all going to die." That's a death threat in any legal jurisdiction, and even on a pirate ship or in the lawless mountains of Afghanistan that sort of talk would result in severe, if extra-judicial, consequences.
And if someone said that to you - you'd perceive it as a threat - and you (if indeed you were sound of mind) most likely would not say that to another human being fearing consequences both legal and illegal.
So knock off the pedantic drivel about "free speech" and "Inquisitions." This isn't free speech.
But it is surely interesting how some of your more astute peers have noted that indeed the comments do constitute universally criminal threats, and have shifted their position to "there was no proof he sent the SMS's." While the only tenable position to take - it has already been undermined by months of howling "free speech" and railing against "LM" for comments that were indeed criminal.
Akong made his death threats at a rally where protesters were harboring armed militants - this according to HRW - a rally where people had already died, a rally where more yet would die. Akong made his death threats with a sound mind he possessed until his death.
I believe he said his comments in bad judgement - but his lack of judgement is particularly the sort of mindset that allows threats to become violence. I believe he would have been shown considerably more leniency had you and your friends not used his poor judgement incited by insidious manipulators in the UDD's leadership, as a political football forcing the court to throw the book at him.
Maybe you'll learn from this mistake - or maybe you'll throw your next "martyr" into the lion's jaws too so you can again disingenuously beat your chest and tear your shirts in feigned grief?
TC say: Akong said, "We're
TC say: Akong said, "We're going to stomp on your face," and "tell them they're all going to die." That's a death threat in any legal jurisdiction...".
This is yet another example of TC's fabrication.
There is no evidence that Amphon said anything. No one said it. All we have is 4 text messages that the prosecution could not prove came from any known person. So the claim "Akong said..." is the first fabrication.
The second fabrication relates to the words used and written as direct quotes. TC has previously claimed to be citing Zenjournalist's account, which does not use the words in the first quote and neither is a full quote nor indicates where words are left out. So TC is again twisting the facts for his propaganda purposes (at least this time he he has corrected an earlier lie where he deliberately misrepresented by merging two messages sent on different days into one).
The third fabrication is presenting his (uninformed) guess as a fact. If any sane person actually reads the laws of other jurisdictions, it is quickly found that TC's uniformed guess is completely wrong (anyone can look at the Wikipedia page on threats to the US president and see that his guess is nonsense for the US).
That's three lies/fabrications in just 23 words. Is that a world record?!
More vile propaganda from TC. No one takes him seriously as his lying is pathological.
As usual, a concoction, even
As usual, a concoction, even down to the law mentioned. I know Tony doesn't care about facts as he makes this stuff up, but other sensible persons might be interested.
18 USC § 876 is not the law that covers threatening the president as head of state in the US. That law is 18 USC § 871. Wikipedia is actually quite good on this and makes it clear that there is no such thing as the 20 year sentence that Tony bleats about.
There are literally thousands of threats made against the US President every year and very few end up landing people in jail. As a Class D felony offense and is punishable by five to ten years in prison, a $250,000 maximum fine, a $100 special assessment, and 3 years of supervised release.
As the Wikipedia piece notes, there is considerable legal debate regarding intent, wilfulness and so on.
In other words, Tony is making stuff up to support his propagandizing conspiracies and to damn the weakest in society while supporting the very strongest.
And, as usual, he will ignore the real facts and continue to repeat his lies over and over again.
Akong sent 4 SMS messages - 2
Akong sent 4 SMS messages - 2 that were direct threats aimed at Thailand's head of state, one an overt death threat. That is a criminal act - not free speech - and would have landed him in jail in any country.
Regarding 18 USC § 876 - Mailing threatening communications - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/876#c
You get anywhere from a steep fine, to 20 years in jail depending on the nature of your threat.
Albert is splitting hairs in a desperate attempt to confuse the issue - yet still proves Akong would end up in jail and would have died in jail, if he committed his very real crime in the United States, just as he did in Thailand.
You are a complete liar Tony.
You are a complete liar Tony. You are unable to help yourself. It is pathological. Far from splitting hairs, I showed that you know nothing and chose the wrong law to make another of your lies. That law doesn't apply to the case at all, not even in your maniacal dreams. And then you come up with your lie from that Amphon would be in jail in the US for 20 years if he sent the messages (and there's no proof he did). Wrong and a lie.
The right law shows you that you claim is a complete fabrication (that you repeat at your ridiculous Land Destroyer and is repeated also at the fascist, extremist Infowars with your precious metal dealer backers). Your claim from that is that I show that using the right and correct law would have Amphon in jail in the US. Again a total lie and a fabrication of the real facts. Read the stuff Tony. Oh,sorry, facts are shit to you.
As I have shown time and again at Prachatai, you simply fabricate and lie for propaganda purposes. You are a disgrace.
Akong sent 4 SMS messages - 2
Akong sent 4 SMS messages - 2 that were direct threats aimed at Thailand's head of state, one an overt death threat. That is a criminal act - not free speech - and would have landed him in jail in any country.
Regarding 18 USC § 876 - Mailing threatening communications - http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/876#c
You get anywhere from a steep fine, to 20 years in jail depending on the nature of your threat.
Albert is splitting hairs in a desperate attempt to confuse the issue - yet still proves Akong would end up in jail and would have died in jail, if he committed his very real crime in the United States, just as he did in Thailand.
"Guest" or I should say Robin
"Guest" or I should say Robin Carvell - what about being "Israeli?"
Right off the bat you are ranting insanely.
Akong made death threats - thats a crime punishable under any system of government. 20 years is actually what you'd get in the US for making similar threats as Akong made - and that's not just saying it toward the head of state, but making such threats against ANYONE.
I love how you pretend to be anti-imperialist yet defend the US State Department funded Prachatai forum - you've even contributed to their articles. You're both insane and a hypocrite and it really says a lot that Prachatai hosts your ranting articles.
So you are Israeli?
So you are Israeli?
Am I Israeli? Lovely - now
Am I Israeli?
Lovely - now US State Department funded Prachatai's Robin Carvell, a published contributor, is exhibiting antisemitism. How delightful - yet I am the one that is often censored for "disrupting" the debate when all the readership here does is overtly lie, name-call and now throw around bigoted accusations that border on discrimination.
Free speech indeed.
Some time ago I stated that I
Some time ago I stated that I would no longer comment on any of tony's offerings because it wasn't worth the effort, but I now make one exception because this time he has really plumbed the depths.
Let's separate the havering nonsense from the facts. Ah Kong was convicted because the court stated that he couldn't prove he DIDN'T send the messages in question. That's an odd sort of justice.
Akong sent 4 SMS's - 1 a
Akong sent 4 SMS's - 1 a direct threat of physical injury, another a direct threat of death to Thailand's head of state and his entire family. That gets you landed in jail in any country.
It was from Akong's phone, from a rally he himself admitted he attended. If it wasn't him, someone used his phone to send those messages and let an old man take the fall for violent threats that were omnipresent both on the UDD stage and amongst the protesters.
Violence, I might add, that was regularly carried out - UDD leaders called for protesters to attack soldiers - they did. Called on them to attack Abhisit - in 2009 they did. Called on them to kill the radio DJ - well, the butchered his father instead. Called on them to derail the BTS - they climbed up on the tracks and tried. Called on them to burn and loot Bangkok. They did - 2 years in a row.
It was his phone, during a rally he was at. What's his excuse? None? Sorry, that doesn't get you off the hook.
The usual dissembling from
The usual dissembling from tony, a favourite trick of his.
"Innocent until proven guilty" is the accepted judicial standard in countries with a fair and transparent legal system. The prosecution failed to offer any evidence proving that the accused sent the offending messages. And, yes, he DID have an excuse! Enough said.
Again - it has gone from a
Again - it has gone from a "free speech" issue to where he was sent to prison for "simply sending insulting SMS's" to - now that we know the SMS's were vicious, criminal death threats - "you can't prove he sent them!" Back peddling - the MO of the deceitful, politically motivated.
But thankfully the truth has come out and we know it was DEATH THREATS - not free speech - which makes all of you look like absolute fools - once again defending a violent movement guilty of demonstrative criminality.
It was his phone at a rally he admitted he was at - do we need video of him sending the SMS's? He sent them - if he didn't, someone else did using his phone and unless he reported his phone stolen, he is STILL responsible for sending a threatening communication.
Tony repeatedly states/lies:
Tony repeatedly states/lies: "It was his phone at a rally he admitted he was at...". But Tony's source - at least the ONLY source he has mentioned in this tasteless set of lies - says nothing of the sort. Rachadamnoen is mentioned while Tony says Rachaprasong.
Still no response on this
Still no response on this demonstrated lie.
As far as I can see you have
As far as I can see you have presented no evidence for your series of lies. When you are proven wrong and to have lied, you just repeat the lies. Disgraceful.
My guess is he's a dog of
My guess is he's a dog of destruction, a slave of the Israeli controlled alternative media - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKBcoMELcJM - not even worth the time of day
Nice - antisemitism on
Nice - antisemitism on Prachatai - very ironic since the National Endowment for Democracy that funds Prachatai millions a year is chalk full of Neo Conservatives who disingenuously exploit the plight of the Jewish people to justify their wars & transgressions against humanity.
"Guest" is Robin Carvell and was published here on Prachatai under the pen name "Gerrard Winstanley."
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/04/over-target.html
What a bunch of bizarre disingenuous bigoted intellectual slobs and hypocrites!
tony says of the late Akong:
tony says of the late Akong:
"he sent them (the text messages) - if he didn't, someone else did, using his phone" etc. Er, well, yes that's the point, there's no proof that he did send them, even tony now admits it. There's clearly a disconnect with reality here.
I guess I was wrong. This
I guess I was wrong. This proves it as the same precedent could be used for mobile phones - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USbVKJuRpl8 - A mobile phone is not the person that owns it.
So now we have people here on
So now we have people here on Prachatai - such wretched liars - that they are posing as me? Sorry - Akong's lawyer, as did all of his defenders for months - claimed he was a martyr for free speech. Frank Anderson has made several recent comments to the same effect - either indifferent or ignorant to the fact that Akong's SMS's actually contained death threats - a crime in any country.
If you heeded my advice and simply focused on the flaws of judicial proceedings in Thailand - I would have actually agreed with you all ...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
Instead, you leveraged this case to undermine Thailand's institutions and shriek "free speech" and howl against "LM" for months. Now it turns out a real crime was committed - now you all dump your "free speech" angles and focus solely on judicial proceedings. Well, that is the sign of the degenerate liar - not genuine rights advocates. You are turning this into a political football to advance a political agenda - not champion human rights.
Shame on you all for riding this man's corpse and for the increasingly despicable tactics you are using (such as the above impersonation) to undermine contrary views....
You claim to be fighting for free speech - yet undermine it at every juncture when it suits you.
I'm an excellent and
I'm an excellent and professional journalist, I am. I'm so excellent, my posts are censored from here. This site is evil, I am good. Good beats evil. My mom told me that. It's true, it is.
Robin - for months you all
Robin - for months you all held Akong up as a martyr of free speech - claiming all he did was speak his mind and now he is thrown in jail - thrown in jail JUST FOR SENDING SMSs.
How quickly your tunes change - now it is not a matter of free speech or even LM! Now it is solely an issue of judicial proceedings! If you and Prachatai and Thaksin's Nitirat had said this all along I would have agreed with you - in fact, in my previous article on this, AND my most recent article I TOO criticize the judicial process in Thailand.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/05/breaking-thai-political-prisoner-guilty.html
What I don't do is defend violent threats made against other people's lives - be it Akong's criminal SMS's or Somyos' Voice of Taksin rag that frequently threatens both individuals, stability, and acts of specific violence - all of which are eventually carried out! These people are accused of REAL crimes. If you don't like the way they are being prosecuted say so - stop pretending what they are accused of isn't even criminal. It is! And would be considered so in ANY country.
If you bleat a false claim
If you bleat a false claim long enough Tony, you will convince yourself but no one else. Give us something that is remotely factual. Perhaps you could read the court's verdict and see what it says about "threats" and "death threats"? That would imply some substance to your propaganda. Oh, that's right, you can't.... So nothing to debate there.
Akong's death threats are
Akong's death threats are published on your own Andrew Marshall of Thai Story's blog - go read them there. How can you claim any position on this case when you don't even have the most basic facts in hand?
Whose fault was it months ago? I lay the blame solely on Thailand's judicial system. But now the facts are out - so whose fault is it that you are ignorant now? Your own.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
But of course you are not interested in this, the truth, what the contents were of Akong's SMS's - your entire goal is to dissemble with "free speech" and "democracy" your cloak.
And not only are you swinging back and forth between this being a "free speech" issue regarding LM, or a problem with the judicial process, but now you've resorted to name calling, while "someone else" is impersonating me.
This is what grown adults do? This is what Prachatai & Co. call free speech and open society? That you are funded by the US State Department through NED - full of corporate-fascists and warmongering, certified liar, starts to have new meaning watching any debate here, where contrary views are introduced, unravel into name calling, diversions, and plain immature behavior - and when all else fails, overt censorship by Prachatai webmasters themselves.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/01/us-funded-rights-advocate-censoring.html
You are a fool. My comment
You are a fool. My comment was about the court verdict. If you could read it you would have a fact to deal with. Others will understand that your story is a concoction and a lie. Just as you dissembled on US law and lied on locations of rallies, you are now deceitful on even the SMS by falsely combining them - on a another thread here.
No one believes a pathological liar and propagandist.
In the context of the
In the context of the royalist military killing unarmed pro democracy protesters at the time those sms texts were sent, I think the sms's were quite tame, and anyone with half a brain would realize they were sent in the heat of the moment (by whoever sent them).
We also need to take into account who the texts were sent to, and how the Democrat Party came to power in 2008.
(need I remind you there was a military coup, then a judicial coup, then a military brokered backroom deal)
btw, I'm still waiting (but not holding my breath) to hear more from Chumpol Silpa-acha about the "irresistible force":
'Invisible hand' throttles our democracy
Can you give us the benefit of your wisdom, Tony, and advise us who or what that force could be?
Thaksin, Corporate communist
Thaksin, Corporate communist fascists, Thaksin's lawyer, Pratchatai the US State Dept. NED (Non-Educated Delinquents) and you.
I hate all of you.
Why don't you change your mind and agree with me?
We can live in world of freedom where we are free to hate and attack everyone we see as inferior or different. Doesn't that sound great? Why don't you join me in my hate campaign? I hope to win people over to my way of thinking by hating them. It's a good strategy isn't it? So far, nobody has joined me because they hate freedom, they are stupid and should die. There is no place for them in my free world.
Even PTP members are now
Even PTP members are now admitting that UDD carried out acts of violence during the 2010 protests - and HRW itself has had to concede that not only did they carry out violence, it was ARMED violence (that means with guns).
HRW Report p10:
"As night fell, renewed clashes erupted when the army attempted to move in on the Phan Fa camp and were confronted by well-armed and organized groups of armed militants affiliated with the UDD. Known as the “Black Shirts,” they fired M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at soldiers, and used M79 grenade launchers and M67 hand grenades at the Khok Wua junction and at the Democracy Monument, devastating army troops in the process."
So this myth, that even the PTP is abandoning, but to which you still cling, that the military was "killing unarmed pro democracy protesters" is contested by the opposition, international observers, and even people in your OWN camp. And no - it is not ok to kill people because your corrupt, despotic, mass murdering leader is ousted in a military coup - that is the military's job.
That said, and with the initial violence triggered by all accounts by UDD militants - Akong's death threats were simply another facet of a violent movement, an intolerable crime - a crime that you are backpedaling on and changing your story regarding.
Still, I believe the court would have showed Akong leniency if everyone didn't try and use the case as a political football. You can't have such a public challenge regarding a case where a real crime was committed, then back down from it - all social order would be at risk. So thank yourself for not getting all the facts together, for exploiting the man's poor judgement, and your continued deceit in the face of insurmountable facts.
But don't you reject HRW as
But don't you reject HRW as tools of the US government and corporate fascists?
To repeat: But don't you
To repeat: But don't you reject HRW as tools of the US government and corporate fascists?
Most crimes, like Akong's
Most crimes, like Akong's death threats, are committed "in the heat of the moment." I guess we should empty out our prisons then?
I've read the SMS's - telling ANYONE "we're going to stomp on your face, you're all going to die" would get you locked up in any country.
The next question you've got to ask yourself - is why was the moment so heated? Could it have something to do with the paid demagogues on stage making similar threats, knowing full well they did so with impunity but whatever they were able to incite their impressionable crowd into doing would render severe consequences for them all?
This after the UDD leadership demonstratively fielded militants who killed soldiers and by standers alike? Come on, Hobby, you're less coherent than usual - and nothing you are saying matches facts.
How many more people have to die or rot in jail because Thaksin is exploiting them, inciting them, and manipulating them for his own cause? 2010's violence was to get Thaksin back into power - nothing else. To this day, UDD rallies are centered on him and his personality cult - the most bizarre of which was the "pilgrimage to Cambodia." I feel for Akong - I do - that he was duped into attending these rallies, and duped into crossing the line and serving as political cannon fodder -AND THAT'S JUST WHAT THE UDD USED HIM FOR.
Here's an instance of TC
Here's an instance of TC concocting: "we're going to stomp on your face, you're all going to die"
In this, he is taking parts of two alleged messages and combining them into one. He does that for his own sordid propaganda purposes.
And, he does this with no understanding of the court's verdict, how the court assessed the messages or of the context in which it was claimed that 4 messages were received by Abhisit's secretary, but could not prove who sent the messages.
So far, just on this topic, we can see he has lied on US law, lied on sentencing in other countries, made up "evidence" on the case (Rachadamnoen vs. Rachaprasong), made claims about convictions without being able to read the court's judgement, and now he is concocting messages.
TC is a vile propagandist.
Akong sent death threats in
Akong sent death threats in SMS's sent in succession - so he himself put them together. Who is concocting? Even the last SMS Akong sent, threatening the life of the head of state and his entire family - was alone a death threat. The proceeding taunts and threats simply compounded his crime and proved his intent.
He was at UDD rallies, it was his phone, he got caught committing a crime - and for MONTHS you all defended him on the grounds of "free speech," not mistaken identity. In fact, all the US State Department propaganda coming out for Akong is STILL based on the "free speech" angle claiming he went to jail for simply sending SMS's.
You've extended him, and UDD in general every benefit of the doubt imaginable, even where evidence makes it impossible to do so, while placing intent, convictions, and charges against your political enemies regardless of the evidence.
That's what's called "vile propaganda."
Now, now Tony, I realise that
Now, now Tony, I realise that you lie so frequently that you forget what you've said, but it was you who concocted this so-called message.
And it is you who is shifting ground. As I have noted several times, we are talking human rights and lese majeste. You made up the claim at #26900 about which law would send ANYONE to jail for threatening emails fro 20 years. You were wrong and/or lying and now you try something else equally dumb. You are moving and changing what you say from post to post.
Now you make up the idea of "mistaken identity" Quite irrelevant to anything but your propaganda. The debate in the court was about proof of sender. None was provided.
Sop, yes, your propaganda is vile.
Just a reminder TC: You
Just a reminder TC: You concocted a message, made it up for propaganda purposes. In many jurisdictions around the world, such actions could have you in court.
Tony: You failed to address
Tony: You failed to address (or even comment on) my question for you: Who or what is the "irresistible force" referred to by Chumpol in the above link?
More questions arise from your responses:
Which of the killed pro democracy protesters were armed?
Do you have any evidence of them being armed, and have you presented your evidence of such to the appropriate authorities?
btw, What you claim is a threat in the sms messages, I think should more appropriately be classed as a curse.
Akong definitely sent death
Akong definitely sent death threats - I read Thai, I had other Thais confirm it - he said he was going to stomp on people's faces, and he told Abhisit's secretary to tell specific individuals that they were "all going to die."
If you sent threatening communications like that to ANYONE in the US, let alone the head of state, you'd get a visit from law enforcement, and would face years in jail if judged sound of mind when you made such threats.
And what part of the HRW report did you not understand when they said, "Known as the “Black Shirts,” they fired M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at soldiers, and used M79 grenade launchers and M67 hand grenades at the Khok Wua junction and at the Democracy Monument, devastating army troops in the process."
91 people died as a result of what Seh Daeng himself admitted was a force of 300 armed militants under his command doing what the HRW report claims was firing "M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at soldiers" and soldiers trying to fire back.
Hobby - I understand your political beliefs - I don't entirely disagree with a lot of what you believe in ideologically, however this constant denial, dissemblance, or whatever it is you are doing as you deny facts admitted by even people in your own camp, is really serving only one purpose - absolutely and forever undermining your legitimacy and any perception that you are sound of mind.
Acknowledge AT LEAST the facts that the UDD itself admitted it fielded militants, that the HRW report proves, based on the evidence it cites, that UDD militants fired at and killed soldiers - and that the soldiers were firing back on them, not "slaughtering pro-democracy protesters."
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-wall-street-manipulates.html
PS they are not "pro-democracy," they are pro-Thaksin, no matter how much you wish they weren't.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/04/bizarre-us-backed-cult-on-pilgrimage-to.html
Hobby - I want the Thai government to serve the people just as much as you do - but unlike you, I am not willing to disrupt the balance of power by elevating one of two evils, neither of which will get us there. I pick balanced stability under which slow but steady progress is and will continue to take place.
I have no doubt that the Thai
I have no doubt that the Thai military was armed, including some sections aligned with the pro democracy protesters.
That is different from pro democracy protesters being armed, but I do accept that it was a mistake for the pro democracy group to turn a blind eye to the armed support they received.
(however, given Thai political history, it is perfectly understandable why some felt they did need to be protected from the royalist military - even though much of that history is covered up or glossed over to make a certain institution look rosy)
A basic tenet of democracy is that the electorate decides the government - the royalist military & judicial coups, and the royalist military backroom deal, were all designed to deny the will of the electorate.
Of the two evils you mentioned, which is willing to submit to the will of the electorate?
Which is the one that habitually stifles democracy?
I notice that like Chumpol, Thaksin & Yingluck seem unable to resist the "irresistible force", so perhaps that might be something you might like to turn your investigative powers to: What is the "irresistible force", and why is it irresistible?
For the record, I think Thaksin is far from perfect, but if the electorate wants him (or his proxy), then they deserve to get him. If they want to remove him/her, they they have the power to do so.
If they want to RE-elect him/her after they have seen the track record, then they doubly deserve what they get:)
UDD's militants were not
UDD's militants were not soldiers - they were mercenaries, they have admitted as much in interviews, and Seh Daeng had admitted these militants were all rouges - either stray rangers or former soldiers rounded up "Blackwater" style, paid and sent in. That's why they were so careful to only attack soldiers when there was significant cover, usually at night, and usually with throngs of protesters between them and the soldiers - they wanted to live to spend their wages.
Finally - Hobby, I think the "irresistible" force you are searching for is called the "silent majority" who still respect their history, heritage, and indigenous institutions, but have so far stayed out of politics because they believe others have it under control. What Thaksin is trying to do is build up his personality cult to such a scale - they can terrorize that majority into submission .
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/04/bizarre-us-backed-cult-on-pilgrimage-to.html
35% of eligible voters voted PT. PT did not even win a popular majority (51%). Since then, popularity has only plummeted. CLEARLY it is the "silent majority" they fear. And I've talked with red shirt supporters - 90% of them love the King and believe this is about "Democrats." When they find out its really about overwriting Thailand's institutions, they will turn on PT/UDD on a dime. That's why UDD is trying to incrementally poison them against the institutions, subtly. Slow enough not to reveal their hand, but fast enough to beat the day the bottom falls out of their movement.
Until the LM law is removed
Until the LM law is removed or made toothless, there is no way of knowing the real level of 'love' (and if they are so loved, why the need to crush all dissent?)
You read Thai? Prove it by
You read Thai? Prove it by telling us what the judges said in their court judgement about each message.
So what what did the judges
So what what did the judges say in their court judgement about each message? Do tell us.
Can anyone shed light on how
Can anyone shed light on how Akong got Abhisit's secretaries mobile phone number?
Was it published somewhere online or in the papers?
It seems bizarre, unbelievable really that he would know the number.
It was regular practice for
It was regular practice for the UDD leaders to pass out such information to try and incite such incidents, violence, and to, in general threaten the lives of Thaksin's political enemies.
Somyos - somehow claimed to be a "political prisoner," in his Voice of Taksin publication regularly printed articles about judges who had been violently killed for unpopular decisions, then published the addresses, phone numbers, and photos of judges currently ruling on Thaksin's various criminal cases.
http://2bangkok.com/10-RedPublications1002b.shtml
Real cute isn't it? And this Somyos is a "political prisoner," and somehow so was Akong for sending death threats. Learn more about the depths of depravity in which the UDD leaders operated, using their most loyal followers as cannon fodder and political footballs.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-wall-street-manipulates.html
The prosecution was unable to
The prosecution was unable to answer that question or provide any evidence that he had such a number. Nor could it prove Amphon sent any messages to anyone.
I warned last year that
I warned last year that Akong's case should be protested on grounds of flaws in the justice system - that it should not be made a political issue - thus causing both sides to be unable to back down and only ensure the book was thrown harder at Akong.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/exposing-wall-streets-human-rights.html
Akong sent death threats, as I suspected when I heard the 20 year sentence - threats you've all been defending as "free speech" until their contents had been made public. Now you are all backpedaling from "he was sent to jail for just SMS'ing" to "he was sent to jail for a crime they couldn't prove."
Which is it? And even as you are faced with this quandary - you still try to make it both an issue of free speech, and an issue of procedural flaws, and even a political battering ram with which to attack Thailand's institutions.
I can only say it has backfired on you in a big way. While you have a small but potent following amongst the pitifully ignorant in this country, millions of Thais are truly interested in the truth - and that this "free speech" Akong exercised turning out to be criminal death threats will definitely cause many on the fence to hop off opposite of you.
They are not in denial over the UDD's violence and intimation, and will tomorrow be reminded again as they file into the streets, disrupt people's lives - to exploit tragedy and set the stage for yet more.
Keep being ugly and immature -keep being oafishly dishonest and insultingly manipulative, and more people will see through this self-serving "human rights racket."
For all of you that think
For all of you that think Peua Thai, Thaksin, and UDD Red Shirts are somehow independent movements...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/04/bizarre-us-backed-cult-on-pilgrimage-to.html
Not only is it obvious they are not independent of each other, but rather functionaries organized hierarchically under Thaksin, and the constant din from the UDD trying to "disown" and "distance" themselves from "Dear Leader" Thaksin are lies, but it is EMBARRASSINGLY obvious.
When people can stop talking shirt colors and produce for their local communities/provinces an actual APOLITICAL PRAGMATIC PLAN, I will believe REAL reform and progress has arrived in Thailand. Until that day - that is what I will work on bringing about -- while you all hamhandedly try to fool others - and perhaps, and very sadly, fool only yourselves.
Prachatai - I know for a fact though - is not fooled. They are US State Department (the ones that "forsaken Akong") paid liars...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Land Destroyer is a cog in
Land Destroyer is a cog in the wheel of a network of right-wing , racist and conspiricist extremists that revolves around Alex Jones and Ted Anderson.
LD links to Jones's Infowars.com which is close to Midas Resources (http://www.midasresources.com/store/store.php?ref=62&promo=specialOffer) which claims to be “One of the world's premiere precious metals firms, parent company of The Genesis Communications Network, proud sponsor of the Campaign For Liberty and creator of the Ron Paul Air Corps.”
Midas Resources was founded in 1996 by Anderson. Anderson and Jones are collaborators, with Jones appearing on the Genesis Communications Network, where Anderson is the CEO (http://www.gcnlive.com/contact.php). GCN has interviewed right-wing, anti-Semite extremist Lyndon LaRouche (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2008/interviews/080401jack_blood_genesis.html). Jones and Anderson have also promoted conspiracy rants by people associated with the extremist John Birch Society (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101290003).
Companies linked in these groups sprout free speech but none of them allows any. Look at LD. No one can disagree with TC! Nor do any of them say anything about their funding. Nor does LD.
I wonder if Prachatai will
I wonder if Prachatai will condemn the thuggery and intimidation used by the UDD in regards to Akong, and some actress they ran out of town for simply exercising her free speech?
I wonder if Pravit will write a heart wrenching examination of how the self-proclaimed stewards of free speech have become themselves, violators of it - just as he admitted Prachatai was - or if he will continue his willful ignorance and duplicity in depicting this in a lopsided manner.
I do await the backpedaling, excuses, and justifications for UDD's constant thuggery, comparisons to PAD which somehow are supposed to make it ok for the UDD to do it, etc.
Could this be the rare instance where reason and objectivity prevails? Or another example of crass claptrap from Prachatai & Co.?