UN will continue pressure Thai govt to amend 112: UN Special Rapporteur
January 10, 2012 -- UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Opinion and Expression, Frank La Rue, said he will continue to pressure the Thai government to amend the lèse majesté law, as well as provide technical support for the authorities where necessary.
Frank La Rue
During his visit to the Prachatai office in Bangkok on Tuesday (January 10), La Rue said that he would like to come back to Thailand again on an official visit to engage with the government on freedom of expressions, not only in terms of the lèse majesté law but also other forms such as cultural expression, peaceful demonstrations, protection of journalists, and access to information.
La Rue has already visited Thailand three times but all have been unofficial visits, since the government has so far not responded to the Special Rapporteur's requests for official visits, which would allow the rapporteur to conduct fact-finding missions and write official reports regarding the right to freedom of expression.
In October last year, he made a statement calling for the Thai government to amend the lèse majesté law and Computer Crime Act to be in accordance with international human rights standards, saying that they “stifle important debates on matters of public interest, thus putting in jeopardy the right to freedom of opinion and expression”.
This statement prompted widespread criticism from some conservative critics, claiming that UN was “interfering” in domestic affairs and that it doesn't “understand” Thailand’s sensitive culture.
Asked about this, La Rue said he still stands by the statement.
“This is not intervention because human rights is an international issue, a commitment by all modern, civilized, democratic societies, and only those who want to move backward to more authoritarian, uncivilized and undemocratic regimes will reject human rights,” he said.
“In no matter which country we’re trying to make human rights universal because human dignity is the same across the world," La Rue told Prachatai. "And so there’s no reason to have an argument in that nature unless people want to avoid their responsibility to respect human rights.”
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The avoidance, and denial of
The avoidance, and denial of responsibility, is very real. As well as is refusal for accountability.
One asks, for example, why it is necessary to shackle someone and then throw him or her in prison because you were offended.
One asks, for example, why international human rights organizations, including even the UN, are not quickly invited to Thailand to observe and comment, unless it is because a close group decided it is not in THEIR interests.
Indeed, I fully agree with
Indeed, I fully agree with Frank.
Something that Thais have difficulty with, is understanding, that even though they are a sovereign nation, as soon as they become a part of the international community and try to acquire the benefits of being part of that international community, then the excesses they perpetrate at home are no longer their business alone.
They also had difficulty understanding that even though they try to suppress information, even though they try to suppress freedom of speech, even though they tried to suppress access to the Internet and knowledge world outside Thailand by deliberately minimising the amount of data that enters and circulatres around Thailand, the world knows well enough what Thais do at home. There are fewer secrets now than there used to be, and even those somewhat dim Thai pooyays who routinely heap scorn upon the heads of foreigners, inevitably see the day when they must look to those same foreigners either for money or for support or for sympathy or for understanding.
The Thai has difficulty understanding that even though the Thai has a limited span of attention and a limited awareness of what is going on outside the tunnel of their vision, the civilised world does not have these limitations to anything like the same extent.
It would be extremely useful in my view if the United Nations and other members of the international community were to take the stand that Mr LaRue has taken, and inform the Thai government that it has international obligations, and the international community expect them to be met if they wish to continue enjoying the commercial benefits of being in the international community.
Notwithstanding the views of the United States of America, and their rather amateurish ambassador to Thailand, I suspect that the rest of the world is less inclined now to humour Thailand than it used to be since glare of international attention has been refocussing on Thailand for a couple of years. If you have a junkyard dog that keeps barking at you, sooner or later, you get fed up with the racket, and the dog is either put down or given a very hard kick so that it can wake its ideas up.
Well done Mr LaRue.
International community led
International community led by whom? You've been apparently absent the last 10 years of world history and haven't noticed how the "international community" or "international order" has been both created, and designed to serve Wall Street, London, and its growing number of vassals.
The constant and overt hypocrisy the UN exhibits in regards to human rights and the rule of law is utterly disgusting and should wrench the guts of both nationalists and genuine internationalist who see an idea that is noble in spirit but abhorrent in practice.
You don't get a choice whether to join the "international community" led by Wall Street and London. You either join it, or you get isolated, illegally blockaded, sanctioned, and subjected to overt and covert military and political attacks. It is mafia on a global scale.
Here is Robert Kagan, a notorious Neo-Con US policy maker who states, "The present world order serves the needs of the United States and its allies, which constructed it. And it is poorly suited to the needs of a Chinese dictatorship trying to maintain power at home and increase its clout abroad. Chinese leaders chafe at the constraints on them and worry that they must change the rules of the international system before the international system changes them."
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/collapsing-china.html
This is one of many - please also see Invisible Empire - watch it with an open mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E
The UN that ok'd US to mass
The UN that ok'd US to mass murder 2 million Iraqis - 1 mil with UN sanctions designed specifically to starve the entire population into desperation & revolt, another 1 mil + when that failed & the UN OK'd a murderous invasion based on absolute lies & 10 years of subsequent occupation.
The UN that ok'd NATO's genocide in Libya - based on verified lies, backing the terrorist Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) who surrounded populated areas, cut them off from food, water, electricity & humanitarian aid, & with NATO bombing, shelled them into submission.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/10/lies-behind-humanitarian-war-in-libya.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/09/libya-nato-enabling-war-crimes.html
This is the same UN that stands by while the US & Israel assassinate Iranian scientists - an act of terror by any measure IN BROAD DAY LIGHT - then brag through their corporate press that no one can stop them.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/11/us-iran-un-idUSTRE80A25P20120111
The same UN that is working in tandem with the US State Dept to harbor terrorists in Iraq so that they can continue carrying out attacks in Iran, & working with the US State Dept in its efforts to prop up Prachatai, Thaksin, & the UDD.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/exposed-us-troops-guarded-terrorist.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Clearly the UN is a tool of the the corporate-financier elite - a justification for otherwise unjustifiable acts of Hitlerian genocide, war, and aggression carried out by the forces of Wall Street and London.
UN international law under the global corporate-financier elite-the same corporations behind the US State Dept, NED, & the think-tanks that extra-legally & undemocratically produce policy across the world.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/01/think-tanks-explained.html
Thailand has signed up to the
Thailand has signed up to the UN version of Human Rights. If it wants to be a member of the club it has to abide by the rules.
Nothing more need be said. Thailand can leave the UN whenever it wants.
For those who mention the abuses of human rights by other members I suggest they address those members directly.
You cannot argue "well my neighbor beats his wife with a golf club so I can beat mine with a baseball bat".
Better stop beating your own wife and try to convince the neighbor of the error of his ways.
"You don't get a choice
"You don't get a choice whether to join the "international community" led by Wall Street and London. You either join it, or you get isolated, illegally blockaded, sanctioned, and subjected to overt and covert military and political attacks. It is mafia on a global scale."
Did you miss me say this in my previous comment - and quite clearly you don't seem to be arguing with me that the UN is nothing more than a facade used to justify Wall Street and London's extraterritorial ambitions.
Let me expand - imagine the planet is a city block and Wall Street/London mobsters - the UN being their protection racket. Yes, technically you have choice not to pay into their racket - of course they will rob you, beat you, turn your tables and shelves over in your shop until you change your mind.
The UN has exhibited self-evidently that its sole purpose is to facilitate and justify the atrocities of Wall Street and London. You are damned either way if you join but have no intention of submitting to corporate-financier dominion.
I know this is contrary to
I know this is contrary to the Universal human right of freedom of speech, but can't this blog muzzle that idiot "Tony"?
In all my years I have never read such patent rubbish and nonsense. This is otherwise an interesting and informed site.
I can only assume "tony" is a wind up. Nevertheless his rants are tedious in the extreme.
If what I said about the UN
If what I said about the UN was such patent rubbish, why is it so difficult for you to quantify how in a rational, intellectual manner? Instead you simply dismiss my documented evidence and opposing views as "rubbish" entirely with empty rhetoric.
Furthermore, the entire purpose, allegedly, of Prachatai and this dialogue you disingenuously abuse is for openness, participation, and debate. However, the moment anyone questions your agenda, or the subject matter presented by Pracahatai, or Prachatai's compromised funding and questionable associations, people begin attacking, dismissing, and even calling for censorship. You are not the first, and be sure - Prachatai has tried on numerous occasions to block my IP and delete my comments.
You irrationally and baselessly lash out because you're intellectually and rationally incapable of defending yourself. Of course, if you were forced to address the facts and documentation I presented regarding the UN you'd either have to overtly lie, or concede that you were wrong.
I sorry to say that I have to
I sorry to say that I have to agree with Robert. It seems to me that Tony's only purpose is to bring Prachatai into disrepute, possibly in concert with the attempts to level lese majeste charges against the editor.
I am personally not outraged by Tony - I just don't take him seriously, but his whining has become slightly tedious. In a free speech environment, nobody wants to see free speech curtailed but when that free speech is seemingly only intended to undermine the value of the forum, then there needs to be some recourse.
This is the 3rd time
This is the 3rd time Prachatai has censored this comment.....
==============================================
How is pointing out Prachatai's overt fraud, hypocrisy, and deceit "bringing Prachatai into disrepute?"
Isn't Prachatai's taking of millions of baht year-to-year from the US government via the State Dept. funded National Endowment for Democracy - filled with corporate-fascist warmongering Neo-Cons, corporate lobbyists, and Fortune 500 BoD members what brings them in disrepute?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Isn't the fact that they hid it from their readers for years and only just recently disclosed this information SOLELY because of my "tedious" "whining" what brings them into disrepute? How is my insistence of holding the politically motivated, self-serving Thai opposition to the same level of accountability they claim the Thai establishment should be held in - tedious and whining?
You have all utterly failed to address the research I presented or the facts that I have cited. Instead you fill comment after comment of dismissive, juvenile, insulting, baseless rhetoric. ADDRESS THE ISSUES - hold EVERYONE accountable, not just your political opponents - that's the only way to TRULY move forward.
It appears that despite your well acted roles of being "progressive" and "liberal" and adherents to "transparency, openness, and civil discourse," in hopes of promoting "accountability" - I'm the only one looking at both sides. And since I do, you criticize me, call for my censorship, and "boxing off" proving your are no more interested in free speech or civil discourse if it becomes critical of what you "believe in" than the people you whine about yourselves all day.
Prachatai is a fraud - they STILL claim to be independent - an outright lie. They portray themselves to be liberal-progressives - yet they are funded by a foreign government via a notorious organization cited by REAL progressives as being a tool of Wall Street global hegemony. I'm sorry, I just don't see how in good conscience you can criticize me for trying to balance what is literally foreign-funded propaganda.
Total nonsense. This has
Total nonsense. This has already posted. You are getting lost in your own repetitive posts Tony.
No censorship at all, just your own meltdown.
By the way, I am waiting to hear from Nitirat's meeting today. The royalist reactionaries are bound to go ballistic.
You have to realize that
You have to realize that Thailand is not a democratic society. It’s not a matter of culture, it’s only that the population has been indoctrinated for generations. Moreover the government and all political party leaders have recently been pressured by the 2006 coup leader: General Sonthi not to pursue the amendment or the abolishment of the Lese Majeste law. Politically the upper house is capable of block any law passed by the house of the commoners. The upper house is controlled by 50% of the palace appointed senators, the other half of the house is divided among 4-5 political parties. Therefore the government cannot pass any law unless it is agreeable by the palace.
Good insights on the
Good insights on the structural damage done by the illegal coup of 2006, Khun Pomjuk. Thanks.
Well... that's the problem, isn't it?
Yes that is the problem,
Yes that is the problem, especially when those few have the guns are would not hesitate to turn them on the people.
One of the few glimmers of hope I see is the freer flow of information hindering the usual total control by the the military and there powerful allies.
But they are desperately seeking ways to control that flow of information because they have understood how dangerous it is to their bamboozling of the entire population. It was so much easier for them when they could whitewash themselves and their own atrocities and absolutely no contradictory spread of information.
Yes that is the problem,
Yes that is the problem, especially when those few have the guns are would not hesitate to turn them on the people.
Indeed. A dwcwnt question here is 'why would they not hesitate to turn their guns on the Thai people?'
And the answer is plain: because they have learned from experience that:
1. Nobody will stop them, and
2. Nothing will happen to them afterwards. Perfect impunity. No accountability.
That is what must change. Not the soldiers, not the government, but the lessons the Thai people hand to people like Prayuth, Abhisit and Suthep. because until people like Prayuth, Abhisit and Suthep are not prepared to behave like Prayuth, Abhisit and Suthep because they rightly fear for what will happen to them afterwards, there will be no change.
For clarity, I will tell you what I think about what should happen:
Boonyaratgalin: firing squad (treason)
Prem: firing squad (treason)
Chulanont: firing squad (treason)
Prayuth: firing squad (mass murder)
Abhisit life in prison with no ability to buy decent surroundings or exile without the possibility of return.
Suthep: life in prison with no ability to buy decent surroundings or exile without the possibility of return.
Then, people like Prayuth, Abhisit and Suthep will not behave like Prayuth, Abhisit and Suthep.
Firing squad for unseating a
Firing squad for unseating a mass murdering autocratic traitor like Thaksin? Are you kidding?
Here's the facts on Thaksin, his foreign backing, since even before becoming PM, and the treasonous associations and consorting he is still carrying out to this very day...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html
Not removing Thaksin by any means necessary would have been a tremendous betrayal to Thailand and its national sovereignty. A dereliction of duty on the army's part.
As far as the Thai government "turning its guns on the Thai people' this is an absolute lie. The military, the UDD leadership, and even Human Rights Watch, along with journalists from around the world have had to admit that during 2010 the UDD fielded an armed wing comprising of between 300-500 heavily armed terrorists. The violence on April 10 was triggered entirely because of their presence and the shoot outs, grenade attacks, and arson that followed was a result of their presence in Bangkok - not a blood thirsty army gunning down peaceful demonstrators. For the thousands of troops that were in Bangkok, if that was their goal, hundreds if not thousands would have died in those 2 months, not 91 - 10 of which were police and soldiers, several more verifiably killed directly by UDD violence.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/mainstream-propagandists-tale-of.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/04/color-revolutions-mystery-gunmen.html
Funny, when I use HRW as a source, in tandem with documented, photographic and video evidence, I get criticized because I question HRW's motivations, funding and agenda, but the fact is UDD's militant posture in 2010 was so overt and well documented there is no denying it, not even by the frauds. Prachatai and Co. pretend to be progressive liberals, in fact they are unflinching Thaksinites and UDD apologists - confirmed daily in their ridiculous, fact-free commentary and propagandizing that even profession propagandists and the UDD itself have refuted!
Tomorrow the Nitirat is
Tomorrow the Nitirat is meeting to engender discussion of, to refine, and to seek support from their fellow Thais for a proposed repeal/reform of Article 112. That's an excellent undertaking according to my lights.
Even more excellent, and radicle, is their meeting a week from tomorrow, to engender discussion of, to refine, and to seek support from their fellow Thais for a proposed roll-back of the most pernicious and salient effects of the illegal 'constitution' of 2006 which granted the perpetrators of the criminal coup of 2006 blanket immunity for their actions, and of all the most pernicious and salient effects since. (I personally would think that since the coupsters of 2006 will be the first ever made responsible for their treason that they might be spared the firing squad or gallows, and merely retired in disgrace without rank or pension. But that's just me, a farang who has no standing in Thailand, speaking.)
And the Nitirat plan to engender discussion of, to refine, and to seek support from their fellow Thais for a proposed, new Constitution for Thailand which first and foremost acknowledges the absolute sovereignty of the Thai people, and proceeds to lay out the law of the land on that basis, informed by both the Constitutions of 1932, the Constitution of 1946, and the Constitution of 1997.
That is democracy with brains, heart, and legs. Hip-hip Hurra! for the Nitirat. For they are jolly good fellows, that nobody can deny.
Muzzling Tony would play into
Muzzling Tony would play into his hands. However, because his contributions are so "uniquely interesting" I have no objection to Prachatai boxing them off elsewhere on the page so that readers can scan the general run of comments without his constant interruptions.
Several off topic comments
Several off topic comments whining about the "disruption" I am causing - when my posts were enumerated/documented lists of atrocities the UN has facilitated and the fact that it is a racket - not an "international institution." I even provided a direct quote citing Robert Kagan, a US policy maker who admitted the "international order" was created by and for the United States (Wall Street).
"I have no objection to Prachatai boxing them off elsewhere on the page so that readers can scan the general run of comments without his constant interruptions."
Constant "interruptions" being anything that runs contra Prachatai's US-funded propaganda, and the sycophantic patronizing of the commentators attempting to build up a false sense of unanimous consensus? Even when it is on topic and your rebuttal entirely off topic?
Prachatai survives only because it tries to portray itself as standing on the moral high-ground. Each post they make and their "authority" hinges on this premise. Dispelling this false-premise therefore has a place in each and every post until they disavow the National Endowment for Democracy, stop re-posting their US State Department talking-points and explain why for years they have taken money from a front for corporate fascism, denounced by REAL progressives for DECADES.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
That each and every post you all make fails to address the facts I present and instead attacks me personally, now this concerted call for my censoring shows just how broad and deep this fraud really is. But I do encourage you to pursue this - it shows two things - how dependent you are on deceit - how poorly equipped you are to exist in the very world you claim to promote - unable to stand in the same light you claim others should be subjected to.
Off topic? You are almost
Off topic? You are almost never on topic, so what's the big deal?
I believe the point is that you are repetitious, only have 2-3 things to say and endlessly repeat them, that you repeatedly exaggerate, fabricate and lie, and that you are disdainful of all other contributors - every single one of them - and damn them with name-calling when you feel like it, encouraging others to be less than civil as well.
Also, while you hate Prachatai, you shamelessly continue to use this forum for your propaganda. The logic of this parasitism escapes me for you are then using the very foreign (and local) funding you claim to reject. In such circumstances A less shameless and intellectually honest correspondent would reject this forum and stick with his own blog and shower the"truth" on all who care to read it.
But that would not be the behavior of a troll does.
"La Rue said that he would
"La Rue said that he would like to come back to Thailand again on an official visit to engage with the government on freedom of expressions, not only in terms of the lèse majesté law but also other forms such as cultural expression, peaceful demonstrations, protection of journalists, and access to information."
That all sounds entirely reasonable to me and a challenge to the current government. Let's see if they are brave enough to take up the challenge.
Another downside aspect of
Another downside aspect of Freedom of Opinion and Expression.
It should not be used as the excuse to violate other people's living.
I wonder if the UN's Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Opinion and Expression really
understand that the "too much Freedom of Opinion and Expression" activities of political supported groups in Thailand can be detrimental to economics and stability of the country.
They even violate human right of other peoples.
The example could be demonstared during the protests by the "Red Shirts" (supported by former exiled Thai PM) in the year 2010, when business main streets in the heart of Bangkok and public transportation were blocked for almost a month followed by the burning down of the city which caused the shut down of entire country.
Even, the entrance of Chula hospital was blocked. The loud noise from the hyde-park was just right next door to the hospital disturbing thousands of patients and hospital staffs that they finally had to evacuate the patients to other hospitals.
Millions of people in BKK were affected by difficulties getting to work.
Would you allow this to happen in London, NYC or Tokyo??
But the shutdown of all air
But the shutdown of all air travel in and out of Thailand to effect the overthrow of the elected government was A-OK, as we all know.
I'm just guessing, but I don't believe that demonstrators seeking an election and the end of a Royal Thai Army appointed government, together with journalists covering the event and people seeking sanctuary in a wat, would be gunned down in the streets in London or Tokyo... maybe Bloomberg would do so in NYC.
But that's got nothing to do with what happened in Thailand, with the Royal Thai Army the most likely torches after the Royal Thai Army Massacre of 2010, attempting to create its justification after the fact.
But none of that is on point.
The point is stifling free speech and imprisoning political opposition by means of the irresponsibly broad, dictator-empowering Article 112... "because human rights is an international issue, a commitment by all modern, civilized, democratic societies, and only those who want to move backward to more authoritarian, uncivilized and undemocratic regimes will reject human rights.”
I've got to quit feeding the trolls.
"followed by the burning down
"followed by the burning down of the city which caused the shut down of entire country."
Really? I must have missed that.
" the burning down of the city "
Well, one building anyway, and the arsonists have not been identified yet. A popular rumour is that it was an attempt at insurance fraud by the owners. Which backfired when the Abhisit government called it an act of terrorism (terrorism is not covered by the insurance policy).
"which caused the shut down of entire country"
Really? Where and how did Thailand 'shut down'
Do you know our friend Tony by any chance? Only he's pretty good at posting arrant rubbish as well.