Deafening silence to extremist proposal is worrying
Submitted by prachatai on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 05:56In a way, Thai society should thank Mallika Boonmetrakul, deputy spokesperson of the Democrat Party, for speaking her mind last weekend. Mallika, a staunch royalist, said that if all attempts to block or ban online content deemed defamatory to the monarchy failed, then the government should adopt her "final solution" of blocking Facebook and YouTube completely.
I have no reason to doubt Mallika's ultra-royalist credentials and this proposal seems very worrisome. The only good thing is that at last we can hear the voice of extremism speak to us loud and clear in public.
Never mind that Thailand already has tight censorship and draconian laws and that the mainstream mass media has to exercise caution with regard to any news or commentary that might be even mildly critical of the monarchy.
Never mind that publications like The Economist have a strange habit of disappearing from local news agents if they carry an article critical about the Thai royal family. Never mind that a 61-year-old was sentenced to 20 years in jail for allegedly sending four messages defaming the monarchy to a politician, or that Joe Gordon faces a verdict next week for translating and uploading "The King Never Smiles" - a banned book that is freely available in Singapore.
Mallika wants more.
But please don't laugh at her. Two Facebook pages have already been set up in her support. This is kind of ironic because Mallika, a former television host, herself proposed that Facebook be shut down as part of her "final solution" to protect the monarchy.
Despite the barrage of online criticism and even the setting up of a mock Twitter account (@NotMallikaBoon), Mallika remains steadfast in her conviction. Sadly, ideology like this risks dragging Thailand back to the dark ages of the Inquisition in Europe or turning it into a country like North Korea or Burma.
Mallika should realise that shutting down space for critical discussion will eventually backfire because mankind is essentially a curious and inquisitive animal.
Over the past few days, some of the so-called "liberal royalists" have expressed concerns about the impact the lese-majeste law would have on the monarchy, and so Mallika's proposal came as a shock to them.
One such royalist, Trisdee na Patalung - a young classical music conductor with a few thousand followers on Twitter - pulled out his support for the Democrat Party after it failed to take a stand against its deputy spokesperson.
"I would like to bid farewell to the Democrat Party, after having marked the ballot box [for the party] all my life. Thanks for the good times we shared," Trisdee tweeted on Monday evening.
Much as I admire people like Trisdee, with whom I have had meaningful discussions on what can be done about the lese-majeste law and the censorship that is increasingly restricting public discussion on the monarchy, I feel that liberal royalists are not doing enough to let their voices heard. Most of these people appear to have abdicated their responsibility to even call for the most modest of reforms.
So any moves as to what can be done about the freedom of expression regarding the highest institution have been hijacked and dominated by ultra-royalist, extreme and embarrassing voices like those of Mallika.
Yet, there are some people who defend the Democrat Party's silence, but this silence is in itself an answer even though party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva tweeted on Tuesday that the Democrats had no such policy. Plus the silence of the Thai mainstream media and society at large regarding Mallika's proposed "final solution" has been "deafening" indeed.
Nothing needs even to be
Submitted by Frank G Anderson (not verified) on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 06:37.Nothing needs even to be 'mildly critical.' 'Mildly inquiring' is sufficient for pretentious charlatans to file accusations with police. Anti-heroes in Charles Dickens' tales would be proud.
There should no longer be any doubt that Thailand is guiding itself into a modern Dark Age and the point of no-return seems to have long passed.
Democracy and freedom of expression are dead. Period.
Only pretense remains alive and well.
I'd like to see someone
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 10:01.I'd like to see someone address the climate of fear the UDD is creating up North using intimidation and violence in an attempt to build up their "red villages" and "red districts." Surely not everyone in these designated unipolar political zones agrees - yet would they dare to speak up after these thugs have repeatedly attack subjects of their political ire physically including with deadly force? Surely this climate of fear is no better or more desirable or justifiable as we claim LM is...
We like to keep pointing at LM as the ultimate evil - but we fail to point out what it is in reaction to. It isn't in reaction to the general public, it is clearly in reaction to Thaksin his UDD, and the foreign corporate fascists that are behind them both (and Prachatai.) These are the same ones conducting "humanitarian warfare" in Libya and now Syria.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/syria-nato-genocide-approaches.html
So you think Mallika's idea is bad? What about designating unipolar political villages and districts? What's that do for free speech, open political discourse, democracy, and human rights? Why the obvious double standards Pravit?
Meet people half way and maybe they'll meet you the other half. People would be less apprehensive to reform the current system if a worse one wasn't waiting like a horde of vultures to take its place.
"We like to keep pointing at
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 14:41."We like to keep pointing at LM as the ultimate evil - but we fail to point out what it is in reaction to."
Royalists in Thailand have been oppressing the opposition since long before Thaksin was even born, you retard. This is nothing knew. The increase in cases come as their unelected illegitimate power is challenged - they feel threatened by democracy, so they wish to stem it as best they can.
There is no justification for banning thinking and speaking and making it illegal. It's iliberal, and will be met with hostility, as it should.
Well, we're all entitled to
Submitted by Postman (not verified) on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 17:05.Well, we're all entitled to an opinion.
Mine is that yours is a bunch of royalist kiss-ass crap. I mean, really, its not even rational.
Today must be national bloody idiot's day somewhere and you're celebrating.
Very intelligent rebuttal -
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 23:43.Very intelligent rebuttal - clearly you have just contributed immensely to our collective understanding of the world and the subject at hand, as well as exhibited the mature transformation you and yours here at Prachatai plan to bring to Thailand. You call me a "kiss-ass" and your colleague calls me a "retard." Neither of you are able to reply with a factual basis to my very legitimate concerns and questions.
And even when Prachataidom is able to respond without using insults - they generally still obfuscate the issues by bringing up irrelevant misdirections - all of which, especially when coupled with outright dishonesty and deceit (and tremendous foreign funding) are just as destructive, corrosive, and inhibiting of free speech, debate, and civil social discourse as censorship.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Very intelligent rebuttal
Submitted by Postman (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 09:53.Very intelligent rebuttal -
It wasn't a rebuttal Tony, it was a dismissal.
clearly you have just contributed immensely to our collective understanding of the world and the subject at hand, as well as exhibited the mature transformation you and yours here at Prachatai plan to bring to Thailand.
Not really, what I did was try to convince you to stop embarrassing yourself in the eyes of others. Didn't work though... where there's no sense, there's no feeling I guess.
You call me a "kiss-ass" and your colleague calls me a "retard."
Yes. Why is that do you think? Here, let me help you. It's either because you have provided convincing, non-bigoted and rational evidence and opinion.
Or it isn't.
Neither of you are able to reply with a factual basis to my very legitimate concerns and questions.
You presuppose that your concerns are legitimate (and, by implication, rational). It seems nobody else agrees with you. Perhaps you should consider that. It also assumes that neither of us *can* respond where what you should understand is that neither of us have *bothered* to respond. You might reasonably ask yourself why that is too. Some things are frankly not worth the effort...
There is no point in applying rationality to stupidity Tony, feel free to take that any way you wish. Perhaps it's not you being potty after all. Perhaps its everyone else.
Postman is not my colleague -
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 10:12.Postman is not my colleague - he's a racist dick sucker.
I did reply to your post with facts, but you've chosen not to read them. What you said was not true. Royalist oppression is not a reaction to the Reds, the Reds is a reaction to royalist oppression. Can you reply to that?
Awww, that's just churlish.
Submitted by Postman (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 17:30.Awww, that's just churlish. All because I say that Thais are relatively unintelligent and can back that up with the Thai governments own statistics, and when you rant at me like a lunatic, I make you feel stupid.
Whatever makes you think I suck dicks anyway lad? Is there anybody's dick you would like me to suck - yours perhaps?
A poor education will always show through... but in the meantime, kindly stop pretending you know me, there are some standards I just won't compromise on.
"Whatever makes you think I
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:25."Whatever makes you think I suck dicks anyway lad? Is there anybody's dick you would like me to suck - yours perhaps?"
Not unless you were on Miss Tiffany Universe.
Most people in the world are stupid, Tony. Go look on YouTube, search something like "stupid Americans" and you get videos of random interviews, Americans who don't even know the sun is a star.
The low intelligence of Thai people, like low intelligence of people in all countries, has understandable reasons. The government and establishment, mostly. An isolated education that attempts to cement elite control and acceptance of social heirarchy - they don't want people to know more than they need to, so education is sheltered and isolated. They don't learn about the outside world, about foreign ideals and reasoning. Another reason is wealth, and keeping that wealth isolated - look at the richest men in Thailand and what they are selling; mobile phones, downloadable music, concrete, beer, 7 Eleven kit such as hot dogs and sweet milk - every single product of which is bought en masse by the poor, regardless of their low income. In America, the elite prosper by selling cars and televisions, computers and lounge suites, so they try to make ways to allow the Americans to get richer and buy more. In Thailand, the most powerful people in the country are selling chicken feed, and benefit from quntity over quality and little competition. Poor people, and lots of them. How can you blame people for being stupid when the most powerful people above them are doing all in their power to keep them that way?
This is not really the fault of the Thai people - they've just consumed what they've been given. The truth is, so has all countries - what is a smart country? Denmark or Finland or something I suppose. The northern Europeans are probably the brightest on average. Though the truth is that they have once again only consumed what they've been given. The difference is they were fed decent education instead of poor. Little is to their actual own merit at seeking out the truth because the fact is most people don't care about being smart.
However, when a Thai person
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:25.However, when a Thai person embarks to become wise, there is nothing to stop them, and they succeed just as easily as any northerners.
So I think you continuing to bring it up is more showing how isolated and narrow your own views are. When you point out stupidity, you do nothing to address the causes of it or the solution. Do you even know these causes and solutions? I am not sure if you do. You say it merely as an insult, a spite. Why? Some sort of insecurity, I'm guessing. I think you failed to fit into Thailand, felt like an outsider and became bitter because of it. So you sought out the points of yourself you knew were better than the Thai, and are trying to rub them in as much you can trying to wrap a blanket around your fragile subconcious self. For there is no honorable reason to persist in calling a population stupid if you make no attempt to remedy the problem. So you're either a fucked up loner or a complete low life.
*I called you Tony. That was
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:26.*I called you Tony. That was a typo
Tony, this is getting boring
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 15:26.Tony, this is getting boring on your part. I have shown several times that you simply fabricate material. And you then claim others are deceiving.... There are no facts in your claims about red shirt villages and districts; just your fabrication.
Notice that Tony has no
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 15:23.Notice that Tony has no evidence for what he claims. He just makes it up. He's actually getting worse. He used to at least try to make his comments look like they had some facts, but not any more.
No evidence that Prachatai is
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 19:25.No evidence that Prachatai is funded by corporate fascists within the US government and Wall Street?
That's easy- it's right here on Prachatai.com!
http://prachatai.com/english/aboutus
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
No evidence that he UDD consorts with corporate-fascists in Washington? Again, this comes directly from a signed confession from the UDD itself...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html
That Thaksin has the largest lobbyists in Washington all working for him - including a director of Freedom House? This is taken DIRECTLY from the US government's own official archives...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html
That the UN report on Syria is the work of a director sitting on the Middle East Policy Council in D.C. amongst Exxon Raytheon, AlJazeera, CIA, US government and military representatives? Again - it is ALL documented - taken directly from both the UN and the MEPC website...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/syria-nato-genocide-approaches.html
I've documented everything - you simply claim I "didn't" and that is your rebuttal? Is anyone who is intellectually honest going to make such an argument? Show me where I've fabricated ANYTHING.
As usual, none of this
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Mon, 05/12/2011 - 09:02.As usual, none of this relates to red shirt villagers, which was the point of your first comment. So no facts and still none for what remain allegations at best.
On the Prachatai claims you make, I have pointed out several times that your claims of 100% funding by Wall Stree/NED/etc. are simply lies. Clear refutation of the lie is at http://www.prachatai3.info/english/aboutus
Prachatai's US funding vs.
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Mon, 05/12/2011 - 09:38.Prachatai's US funding vs. donations for the year 2010 = 84% from US government & US corporate foundations, vs. 16% other (which may or may not include OTHER foreign donations).
For the year 2011 = 98% US government & US corporate foundations vs 2% other.
98% surely isn't 100% but other years - no donations are listed - only US corporate & government funding.
For the year 2005-2006 ONLY George Soros' Open Society Institute is listed - meaning yes indeed, 100% of Prachatai's listed income for that year came for US government/corporate foundations. So until Prachatai or yourself list otherwise, we'll have to assume they scraped by with only Soros' couple million.
I will concede one point to you .... I did actually say,
"As mentioned before, Prachatai, according to their own financial disclosure, year-to-year is anywhere between 77% and 100% funded by the US government and/or US corporate-funded foundations."
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
But this excludes other globalist foundations - I was very generous in my math to afford them 77% that one year. However, an "independent" news organization that is STILL funded 77% on their best year, by a foreign government and foreign corporate-funded foundations, while funded 84%, 98%, and 100% other years, egregiously has its legitimacy cut out from beneath them. For you to play semantics or suggest your 20 baht donation makes me a liar - still ignores the FACT that Prachatai would not exist without constant and very substantial foreign funding.
I say substantial of course - based on the fact that I have done more than Prachatai in my one year of serious writing with ZERO funding at all. So I find 3-4 million baht a year from the US government to be quite a luxurious operating margin.
Now Albert - please do apologize - and retrench your argument somewhere more honorable and closer to some, at least more believable, narrative - if the truth still doesn't suit you.
Apologize? For what Tony? I
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Mon, 05/12/2011 - 14:02.Apologize? For what Tony? I called you out on your repeated statement that 100% of Prachatai funding being from those you declare enemies of the world. You now grudgingly acknowledge that you did indeed make this up. But you can't help yourself as an inveterate fabricator. Now you tell me - and how could you possibly know - that I made a 20 Baht donation to Prachatai. A complete fabrication and lie. But it does show how you care nothing for truth.
In your grudging admission of fabrication, you try to correct your earlier claims. But how do you do it? First, you use your own definition of what is private an what is public and second, the only way to get close to your 2011 figure for Prachatai's funding is to convert a German foundation into "US government & US corporate foundations."
Even your grudging admission on getting the 100% funding wrong includes a lie. In your comment here (http://www.prachatai3.info/english/node/2916 #23588) you state: "Prachatai is 100% funded by the US government." You made it up then and you make it up now. Then it was U.S. government funding. Now you fudge further and add in the geographic lie. Perhaps you don't even realize that you do it as it has become standard practice to fabricate.
At the same place (#23704) you "explain" that "100% means Prachatai was created and kept in business solely by US government support. They daily re-post propaganda put out by the US State Department via National Endowment for Democracy's & OSI's various subsidiaries."
Again, fabricated nonsense. There is no such Prachatai reposting of "propaganda put out by the US State Department via National Endowment for Democracy's & OSI's various subsidiaries" on a "daily" basis.
And, as a trained troll, you still haven't provided a single shred of evidence about red shirt villages. Now why is that? Still thinking how you might fabricate that one?
I am pleased to respond to any further Tony post when it is on topic rather than trollism gone mad.
US NED & Soros funded
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Mon, 05/12/2011 - 16:23.US NED & Soros funded Prachatai.com currently have re-posted on their front page a NED funded Reporters Without Borders wire, Soros-funded Human Rights Watch report, and a NED and Soros-funded FIDH report. Care to do the math and figure out what percentage of their reporting actually is handed directly to them from US government's NED and its subsidiaries?
Funny thing is "Albert" I know you are playing a game, and it is very insulting to the intelligence of objective readers who will click on my links and investigate for themselves what Prachatai's foreign funding really is all about. ....
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html#uds-search-results
And who their backers are and what their real agenda is....
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html
So keep insulting people's intelligence and driving their curiosity to the hidden knowledge you duplicitously want to poison their opinions against. Humans are naturally curious - surely they want to look behind the curtain...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/mainstream-propagandists-tale-of.html
Peace.
As usual, none of this
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Tue, 06/12/2011 - 09:39.As usual, none of this relates to red shirt villagers, which was the point of your first comment. So no facts and still none for what remain allegations at best.
Now Tony says don't look at the data on Prachatai funding at the Prachatai website but look at Tony's own fabrications and poor mathematics. So he sends us in a circle and has the hide to talk about "intelligence." It isn't a game Tony, it is showing that you are a troll and that you fabricate "your" evidence. You are a propagandist for yourself. It must be great living in a world where you tell yourself that you are right and correct each day.
And still nothing to confirm your original lie on red shirt shirt villages. Not even an attempt to make something up.
Prachatai's funding from the
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Tue, 06/12/2011 - 10:49.Prachatai's funding from the US government and foreign corporate-fascist interests is on their website - I used their own numbers as the basis of both my research and my mathematics. I also used the websites of the US corporate-fascist warmongering organizations that fund Prachatai's work year-to-year.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
You honestly believe that by you just saying I'm crazy and discredited makes it so? Where's your mathematics? Don't see any. Where's your sources to counter my claims? Absent as usual. You crutch your defense along on the belief that your audience is too programmed, stupid and easily manipulated to think, and more importantly check for themselves. I hope people DO look into it, do the math in an attempt to prove you right and me wrong, and find what a very deliberate, predatory liar you - and the Prachatai crowd who for the longest time tried to hide and still do downplay this funding, are.
Furthermore I attempted to politely reach out the Prachatai on a number of occasions and show them who in fact is funding them. That they are Neo-Con warmongers who use human rights and "democracy" to overthrow nations and take them over for their admitted aspirations of global hegemony.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html
They not only didn't care - they claimed they were quite proud to be considered "betraying their country." So there you have it - I just wish they could be as open with the red shirt crowd as they are with their critics behind the scenes...
Tony: You remain off topic.
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Tue, 06/12/2011 - 14:03.Tony: You remain off topic. Still no evidence for your fabricated claims on red shirt villages. Do I take it there is none?
My figures on Prachatai are taken directly from their site. While other may deduce a state of mental delusion, I do not claim you are crazy. If you say you use the same source, I would say that is clear that you are challenged by figures. Your figures are wrong when compared with the wild claims that you so regularly make. I suggest you re-check and try to use a calculator and also re-classify the German foundation. Your errors and fabrications are seemingly never-ending.
I'm sure that your fabrications will be clear to all who read this as well as how you descend to putrid name-calling that reveals a deep hatred of those you cannot agree with. I suspect that is a pretty huge number, so you must be very busy.
Prachatai is funded between
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Tue, 06/12/2011 - 16:48.Prachatai is funded between 77-100% year-to-year by the US government and/or US corporate-funded foundations. That "German" foundation - go ahead and see who sits on their board, who sponsors them, who they associate with, where they get their money from, and what agenda they are peddling alongside Wall Street and London. It's the same people, same corporations, same foundations - over and over again, it is almost as tiresome to point it out as it is to listen to wilfull liars like yourself deny that it is so. So no, I will not "re-classify the German foundation."
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
I've provided by research with links to official annual reports from these organizations themselves - and you are more than welcome to share with us your math and how it all breaks down. Even the best numbers you could noodle out of Prachatai's admitted funding (they've lied before) still makes their claim of being "independent" a ridiculous lie and an insult to the intelligence of everyone that reads their nonsense. You are not independent if a foreign government is paying your bills.
That they have to put a disclaimer up assuring people they have not been compromised in and of itself illustrates that they KNOW full well they are amidst an astronomical, indefensible conflict of interest. Yet they still have the audacity to try and defend taking money from these people....
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html
That's a fact. Prove to me otherwise.
As for the Red Village - I challenge you to go up there and remove the sign in front of everyone - if you come back alive, I will be more than happy to concede this point to you. Good luck, "AP."
"We are all David Duke" the
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Wed, 30/11/2011 - 23:39."We are all David Duke" the deafening silence over Lese-Jew laws in Germany ....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/jewish-group-applauds-arrest-in-germany-of-former-kkk-leader-david-duke/2011/11/30/gIQATPnWCO_story.html
Obviously this is SATIRE - but perhaps now you can see how stupid and hypocritical you all look - or maybe you'll surprise me... maybe Prachatai will do a story on defending David Duke's freedom of speech and condemn the EU's travel ban to prevent him from speaking his mind. They threw him in jail BEFORE he even said anything ... maybe when I open the Nation tomorrow Pravit will have penned for us his tear soaked sentiments over David Duke's silencing at the hands of draconian laws aimed to prevent criticism and debate in society.
Then again, Prachatai usually doesn't cover anything until their corporate sponsors sends them a wire - I don't expect Freedom House, NED, HRW, or Amnesty to take up Duke's case anytime soon.
Again - it doesn't surprise me to find that "freedom of speech" is sought here at Prachatai up until someone actually says something YOU disagree with. Then we get the insults, threats, pleas to censor and ban individuals from debate, etc. Even saw Prachatai's fandom suggest that if they "voted" they could censor certain comments - as if 51% is able to vote away the rights of the other 49%. Brilliant and truly indicative of the modern "progressive liberal" mind.
Tony: Please tell us more
Submitted by Hobby (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 08:24.Tony: Please tell us more about the plight of poor, unfortunate, David Duke
- How many years jail is he facing?
- Did he get bail?
- Will he get a fair trial?
He hardly seems like a victim to me - see for yourself here: http://www.davidduke.com/
The fact that you can (even in satire) equate the plight of people like Darunee (18 years jail) , Amphon (20 years jail) with a KKK/white supremacist shows the quality of your thinking.
Are you compairing pro
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 10:15.Are you compairing pro democracy activists to KKK leaders? I don't even know what to say to that. There is a big difference between question the system of governence in your own country and encouraging a race war.
Are you seriously saying that
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 18:44.Are you seriously saying that one's exercise of their freedom of speech is determined by the perceived quality of their views? And the veracity that supposed "human rights activists" defend people whose rights have been infringed upon is likewise determined by "what" their message is? Wow - how progressive!
Do you not see that as a stunning display of immense hypocrisy? I completely disagree with David Duke - but does that mean he should be censored or we should care less about his rights being violated?
Again Prachatai - a foreign funded propaganda front is merely picking and chosing as per Wall Street and London's corporate fascist agenda, where and where not to put pressure. If they, and its audience were truly objective, they would just as equally defend the unpopular views of Duke, as they do people who peddle their own political agenda.
If you refer to the US laws
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:39.If you refer to the US laws where the KKK originated, you will find they have written quite clearly that freedom is limited to the point where it begins to infringe on other people's liberties. The KKK are violent people. They have killed many black people. Killing people generally is deemed as infringing their liberty. If people in the US simply want to protect native Americans, then they can become activists on immigration and citizenship laws, as many do. But stringing up black people or encouraging to do so is not the same thing.
In Thailand, nobody here is speaking of harming the King or Queen or their son in any way. The lese majeste laws are being used to prevent Thai people from chosing how their own country should be governed. Wanting a republic does not mean the royal family will be harmed at all. Yet people will get thrown in jail for speaking about it. Or for speaking against the actions of the Army or such or any organization which claims to be acting on behalf of the King when it shoots unarmed civilians - just about anything really.
This is different, Tony. People in the KKK wish harm upon others. Human rights activists in Thailand wish only to defend their libierties and discuss their society and it's laws, yet they get thrown in jail likewise.
Are Tony Cartalucci's various
Submitted by Frank G Anderson (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 06:58.Are Tony Cartalucci's various writings the product of "something" as well as of "someone?" Many writers are prolific, but sometimes it takes money and an organization better enable "the process." Tony has often mentioned Prachatai funding, and funding of many globalist interests, and yet has not mentioned his own.
Over to you, moneybags.
Oh, this guy is the same as
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 10:16.Oh, this guy is the same as TC? That explains a lot. I was finding it hard to believe there were so many fascists around here, but it turns out they're all the same person.
Well for sure if I exposed
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 19:52.Well for sure if I exposed Prachatai's Wall Street corporate fascist foreign funding, you can be sure I am NOT a corporate fascist. Since I use Blogger, WordPress, and Twitter, all of which are absolutely free - what even makes you think I am funded or in need of funds in the first place? You don't even have a reasonable circumstantial arrangement to make - just a grasp at straws in a desperate attempt to divert from the issues and FACTS I present - which is worse than censorship.
I didn't "mention" Prachatai's funding, I exposed what it 100% is...
landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
It's not that Prachatai is receiving foreign funds alone - it is because they pretend to be human rights activists and free speech proponents and they are taking money from America's Neo-Conservative establishment who has built a global network of "Prachatai's" to help them abuse these ideals to execute their agenda.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html
Gee, FGA - it sure would be great if you could face these issues and facts and stop myopically obsessing over my identity.
tony c. your a a fuking
Submitted by soho (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 08:18.tony c. your a a fuking stupid dick sucking NAZI-ASHOLE ....
One such royalist, Trisdee na
Submitted by john francis lee (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 14:06.Murdering 90 Thais in the middle of town in broad daylight because they insisted on an election is OK, but... I WANT MY FACEBOOK!!!
It's hard to take liberals, anywhere, seriously. I'm sure he's a fine musician.
Actually "Francis" that's 91
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 20:04.Actually "Francis" that's 91 dead during the 2010 failed insurrection.
Let's look at those numbers:
91
- 9 soldiers and police
-1 woman killed by a UDD grenade attack
-1 protester who died of smoke inhalation when fellow protesters lit the building he was looting ablaze.
=80.
The remaining 80 deaths included journalists, bystanders, medical workers, and protesters caught in the crossfire of an obvious armed conflict taking place in the streets - day and night - between Thai troops and Thaksin's armed militants. No, the protesters largely were unarmed - though clearly some did sport small arms, knives and machetes - but there was definitely and armed faction working on behalf of the UDD's leadership - of this they themselves have admitted - and even BBC, CNN, and HRW have had to concede to.
So let's knock off the Robert Amsterdam paid-shill 91 dead protesters routine - because it wasn't 91 dead protesters. Real democracy cannot exist in a swamp of deceit. If you are beside yourself with the lack thereof in Thailand, Mr. Lee - perhaps you should look in the mirror to find a contributing factor obstructing real progress.
The witness accounts of the
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:46.The witness accounts of the clashes with the Army and pro Thaksin militants do not include any instances of civilians being caught in the crossfire. None. You made it up, Tony.
If you want references, here you go
http://www.hrw.org/node/98416
In impartial organization tells the facts. Read the free PDF and see how stupid you are.
What they eye witness accounts do profess, Tony, is the Army shooting at unarmed civilians when the black shirts were not even present. They were just shooting them. No legitimate reason. Just shooting.
You are posting bullshit.
Like I said, you're talking to mostly a very intelligent group of people here, Tony, who are all well researched. The usual lies you make up to convince yourself and other people will not pass. You need facts and references to sway us.
TONY C. TODAY MUST BE
Submitted by tank (not verified) on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 08:46.TONY C. TODAY MUST BE NATIONAL BLOODY IDIOT'S DAY
SOMEWHERE ! AND YOU"RE CELEBRATING !
STOP YOUR FUKING COMENTS !
Again - you've all made lots
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 18:08.Again - you've all made lots and lots of claims - my work is fabrications - Albert even humorously claims he's "proven" as much - but clearly you are gunning from the hip because if they were you'd be able to easily pick it apart with solid facts yourselves. When challenged you simply dismiss my work and make excuses as to why intelligent debate is not required to address my contrary views and facts contradicting your perspectives. PS. Facts are not your simple hearsay or say so.
Again - this exposes just what a bunch of hypocrites you really are and how "debate" "open society" and "free speech" are just slogans you shamelessly abuse to promote your political agenda.
Best of all is how you claim David Duke's freedom of speech is somehow less important to protect simply because of the perceived quality of his views. Frankly I find the KKK, neo-Nazis and white supremacy (I being amongst a group targeted by their views) very counter-productive. Does that mean they don't get a right to speak their views? How is David Duke's vitriol worse than Somyos and Co. calling for Red Shirts to burn Bangkok to the ground and start a "People's War" against the "elite?" Because Thaksin's autocratic hereditary dictatorship is more "noble" in your view than Duke's ideas?
But hey - KEEP IT UP! Really helps me make my point in spades that Prachatai & Co. is just out to push one side of a very political agenda - the side of their foreign sponsors.
Clearly Tony is unable to
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Mon, 05/12/2011 - 09:07.Clearly Tony is unable to distinguish between truth and lies. Anyone can go back and read the several points where I have shown TC's "facts" to be lies and fabrications, including in comments above. He "answers" in true troll fashion by changing the topic and ignoring all but his own views of the "truth." He has not responded to any of my comments that claim lies and fabrications with any direct rebuttal.
Please answer the questions,
Submitted by Hobby (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 19:22.Please answer the questions, Tony, regarding poor David Duke:
- How many years jail is he facing?
- Did he get bail?
- Will he get a fair trial?
Then contrast that to the plight of Darunee (Da Torpedo) who was convicted to 18 years jail after a secret/closed trial.
The conviction later got overturned as the trial was ruled unfair, but guess what, she is still behind bars after 3 years, not even allowed bail.
If you weren't so dangerous we'd just dismiss you as a fool, but sadly, you are so persistent, that we have to keep showing you up for the dangerous fool you are.
Da Torpedo took to the stage
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 20:25.Da Torpedo took to the stage of a foreign-funded seditious movement led by fugitive, mass murdering autocratic Thaksin Shinawatra who is literally represented by Wall Street and London interests through the largest lobbying firms on earth. You still seem unable to admit this - and your fellow Prachatai fans seem to on-and-off admit this depending on whether I provide this following link or not....
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movement.html
Then they say, "well so what, we already knew this." If you know UDD is working for Wall Street and London, thus making their agenda seditious and treasonous, and nothing to do with democracy, why should we feel sorry for those being thrown into prison, getting a mild recourse to what would otherwise be charges for treason? Yes it is a crime to lie to people about democracy and freedom when in fact you are leading them to foreign servitude - just like its a crime to tell a blind person an intersection is safe to cross when a delivery truck is speeding by.
She is lucky she's in jail and that Thailand isn't a real dictatorship, because even in the West if you get accused of treason - the penalty is either life in prison or death.
Now - Hobby - you seem to suggest that David Duke's rights being infringed to whatever extent is not as important as the rights of those peddling your political convictions - what dangerous hypocrisy.
I don't want to get Prachatai
Submitted by Hobby (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 20:31.I don't want to get Prachatai & Chiranuch in any trouble so won't post here what Darunee said, but I urge any interested observer to seek out what Da Torpedo said.
(in short, she's in jail because she spoke the truth)
In one post you claim Thaksin
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:48.In one post you claim Thaksin is communist, in the other he's backed by Wall St. Amazing.
Yep, that's it for me. I
Submitted by Postman (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 21:49.Yep, that's it for me. I won't be further responding to this clown. He parrots the same dubious opinions even more often than JFL parrots his - but he seems to be marginally smarter so should know marginally better.
Tony is either just a common-or-garden troll or a proxy for someone else trying to peddle an already discredited though pernicious monarchist line, Either way he is not someone I want to have further contact with in these uncertain times.
It's "monarchist" to point
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/2011 - 22:11.It's "monarchist" to point out who really funds Prachatai and that these people have abused the ideals of human rights and freedom around the world to hide their corporate fascist agenda?
landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
It's "monarchist" to point out that Prachatai, Thaksin, and the UDD are all backed by the same foreign interests, thus constituting an immense conflict of interest and betraying their claims of fighting for democracy and freedom?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html
I keep "repeating" my points, and re-posting the links because you have STILL failed utterly to address them, honestly or otherwise, and respond only with an endless tangent of insults, misdirections, and long-winded diatribes, including your final comment. You intellectual cowardice has been noted - good luck "Postman."
You're royalist because you
Submitted by SomeRandom (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:51.You're royalist because you come here to defend the interests of the wealthy elite and royals. At one stage, you even were posting that we should all adopt sufficiency economics. You defend their military crackdowns, censorship actions, political policies. You are royalist.
Prachatai needs a moderator.
Submitted by dwilliams (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 16:38.Prachatai needs a moderator. These comments have little to do with the article.
Lol - so we end right back up
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Fri, 02/12/2011 - 18:56.Lol - so we end right back up to "censoring" someone who doesn't agree with us... a magnificent collection of hypocrites, intellectual degenerates, cowards, and moral deficients the US State Department has afforded us here - truly the best money can buy.
Self-sufficiency is the very foundation of real human freedom - it is absolutely stunning to actually see people arguing against it as if dependency on the state, corporations, and/or political machines is somehow better? You people are so blinded by your absolute hatred of Thailand and its traditions, culture, and people that you would defame an entire concept, not even indigenous to Thailand but lying at the foundation of ALL truly free societies just to spite the Monarchy who rightfully promotes it.
In reality you are all closet corporate fascists, sipping on your Starbucks lattes, sitting on your IKEA furniture, bemoaning human rights abuses "sent from my iPad" made by Chinese workers literally locked into their FoxComm factory so they don't escape or kill themselves because of the slave like conditions.... ANYONE can talk the talk - but none of you are actually walking the walk - just making poor excuses for inviting a greater tyranny to take the place of a lesser one - one that openly aims at empowering the people not by handing them fish, but teaching them how to fish on their own.
Thailand's ability to grow its own food, manufacture many of its own goods and ability to conduct a domestic market isolated from the degenerate Ponzi-scheme casino economies of Wall Street and London is what has allowed it to weather crippling global economic conditions - and even as the EU and US collapse into a sea of corruption and hypocrisy - PRACHATAI is still here promoting that we implement the same parasitic, unproductive, nanny state here.... Figure it out.
"Self-sufficiency is the very
Submitted by Frank G Anderson (not verified) on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 05:47."Self-sufficiency is the very foundation of real human freedom"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Try, "Self-determination is the very foundation of human freedom."
Self-sufficiency is a different matter.
By the way, all those insults kind of overturn your earlier comments to the rest of us that we should not throw insults about.
What happened?
Hmmm. Tony appears unable to
Submitted by Postman (not verified) on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 15:10.Hmmm.
Tony appears unable to understand that when someone promotes the laughable sufficiency 'theory' in Thailand, what they really mean is that the poor should be happy with their lot and allow the rich to continue plundering.
Just like the guy who made the whole fairy story up in the first place really. A transparent attempt to pretend that there is some mystical rationale for the naked thievery that's been going on for decades.
Only Postman you have not
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 23:40.Only Postman you have not actually read about self-sufficiency theory - clearly it doesn't say that - of course the LIARS and degenerates and servants of corporate fascism say that's what it's about and they depend on people like you to never bother reading it for yourself. In reality, they want you to be in constant servile dependence on political solutions met out by feckless bought off, entirely compromised politicians, who like throughout the West, are entirely owned and in the service of corporate-financier interests.
I provided this link several times, and will provide it again - please do read it and the other article at the top it links to and explain to me how this keeps poor people happy in their destitution? Additionally, are you trying to say that Neil Gernshenfeld of MIT is selling poverty?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/03/globalists-worst-nightmare.html
Aren't you ashamed to be an adult but being so intellectually underdeveloped? READ!!!!
Let me ask you this FGA - how
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 23:59.Let me ask you this FGA - how can you be "self-determining" if you depend entirely on corporations, governments, and political machines? The answer is you can't. Self-determination stems from being self-sufficient, because as I just said, self-sufficiency IS the very foundation of human freedom.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/03/globalists-worst-nightmare.html
I know exactly what you're trying to suggest .... "DEMOCRACY." Democracy is a cruel hoax involving 2 or more candidates that couldn't care less about the people if they tried, who throw you just enough goodies to keep you placated while pursing their own agendas on the back of their own people, be it war or corruption - a story as old as mankind itself - in another term - gilded exploitation.
You can't be exploited by others if you are politically, economically, and socially independent, as an individual, as a family, as a community, as a province, and as a nation-state. This doesn't mean you still don't have a representative government, it just means that by being truly free through self-sufficiency, on smaller and smaller levels, the things you depend on others including government for, becomes less, and less important.
I have NEVER seen honest people argue against independence and self-sufficiency - though it doesn't surprise me to see it here amongst the corporate-fascist funded pages of Prachatai - as self-sufficiency truly is the worst nightmare of elitism.
The Democrat Party
Submitted by john francis lee (not verified) on Sun, 04/12/2011 - 20:42.The Democrat Party spokeswoman, Mallika Boonmeetrakul, seems to be heading up the campaign to slander the Puea Thai Party and to start the race to the bottom of the pit of slime and innuendo. PPT has a link to the history of jingo integral to the Democrat Party...
Accusation against Pridi Phanomyong
... reminding once again that, as Ambrose Bierce is said to have said, "patriotism is the very first refuge of true scoundrels".
This is not 1946, thank goodness, and the Democrat/Royal Thai Army/PAD amalgam has been screaming 'traitor' and 'terrorist' and 'regicide' so loudly for so long that they have by now blunted the purported import of their 'message' and immunized the Thai population against their viral infection.
All that remains now it the echo of their vile, hysterical and empty, still-born shrillness.
Well done JFL. Mallika is the
Submitted by albert park (not verified) on Mon, 05/12/2011 - 09:12.Well done JFL. Mallika is the inheritor of a long tradition of Democrat Party royalism that has been anything but democratic.
While ideals are often what
Submitted by Tony (not verified) on Tue, 06/12/2011 - 11:01.While ideals are often what scoundrels hide behind, Prachatai, UDD, and Peua Thai as prime examples - that doesn't mean everyone upholding ideals are scoundrels.
Another conclusion derived from truly flawed logic. Yes indeed that quote is true, but patriotism also unifies and binds people in the face of an overwhelming, unyielding threat.
Let's again take a look at what REALLY is behind Thaksin and his UDD - and Prachatai for that matter - and let me give you a hint - it's not democracy...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html
Should a nation-state not defend itself in some manner from foreign interests infiltrating their political, social, economic and territorial sovereignty?