Da Torpedo sentenced to 18 years in jail for lèse majesté
On 28 Aug, the Criminal Court found Daranee Charnchoengsilapakul guilty as charged and sentenced her to 18 years in jail.
Daranee was convicted on three counts for her three public speeches at political rallies at Sanam Luang on 7, 13 June, and 18-19 July 2008. The punishment for each count is 6 years in jail.
Daranee’s lawyer will appeal the case.
There were about 30 people who came to give moral supports to Daranee at the court.
Immediately after the verdict, Daranee went on to the hearing of another case in which she was sued for libel by Gen Saprang Kanlayanamitr, one of the 2006 coup leaders. The court will give its ruling on 16 Sept 2009.
The Criminal Court has held the lèse majesté trials in secret since the first day of hearing, 23 June 2009, claiming Article 117 of the Criminal Code which concerns national security.
The defendant asked the Criminal Court on 25 June to temporarily suspend the hearings and forward her complaint to the Constitutional Court to consider whether the Criminal Court’s order to hold the trials in secret was in violation of the defendant’s rights according to the 2007 Constitution or not, but the Court dismissed her request and insisted that its order was not unconstitutional as the defendant had her lawyer and could produce any evidence and witnesses at the court.
On 27 Aug, the defense lawyer Prawase Praphanukul filed the complaint himself with the Constitutional Court.
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18 years in jail for 'Da
18 years in jail for 'Da Torpedo'
This is truly disgraceful!
Sentencing someone to 18 years in prison for words! for a victimless
crime! for political opposition! At a secret trial, nonetheless!
Shameless! Thailand has become a fascist police state.
Big debate on New Mandala
Big debate on New Mandala here:
http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2009/08/28/thailands-royal-disgrace/
She can still appeal. If you
She can still appeal. If you guys out there make her case "big", there's a possibility that the sentence can be halved. I wonder where the four or five Thammasat lawyers who always issued statements against the norms are- why do they keep silent in this case? This isn't really about what she said or said not anymore. The sentence is-- hate to say this-- deliberately harsh. I don't share her politics or ideology, but there's something seriously wrong in a society which doesn't care for its own people. Dar Torpedo has put on a lone fight long enough; it's time for people with "space" to step in.
I agree 100% with JFL. It's
I agree 100% with JFL. It's like Stalinist Russia.
Sub - she is apppealing, and you're right: "there's a possibility that the sentence can be halved" TO 9 YEARS!!!! Why the hell should anyone have to spend one night in a jail for speaking words? Silly, ill-advised words. If I were to be subject to the malicious sanctions of an evil, corrupt, fascist government & judicial system for every stupid, bad-taste, or ill-advised thing I've ever said, I'd never be free. And how many of the readers of this blog can say the same? What's the matter with these idiots? (Whoops, there I go again! Khor tod, khrap. That statement is inoperable, as Nixon said.) This is a sick, degenerate society, with no love of freedom, and very little respect for intelligence.
May everyone in connection with the Thai government, the judiciary and the law-enforcement agencies, in this Buddhist society, receive their karmic rewards for all their actions. Is that a curse? Of course not! I'm simply being devout, acknowledging a law which operates like the law of gravity. Would you stand on the edge of a cliff, dressed in the impressive uniform of your office, surrounded by bank statements & symbols of your 'success' & burn used tampons, or whatever, stick gold leaf on an image, & chant some 'magic' incantation, then take that extra step, expecting to fly?
Quote from Manit
Quote from Manit Sriwanichpoom on seeing Mother Hai calmly reading a Dharma book during a protest outside Government House. (She had spent twenty years peacefully struggling to be compensated for the loss of her house and farmland under the waters of the Huay Laha Dam.)
"I wondered: Are Buddhist books meant only for consoling those who suffer? What of the people who cause their problems; what do such people read?"
Suvicha got ten years, Da
Suvicha got ten years, Da gets eighteen, and one of you is worried about a big deal being made out of this injustice?!!
no one is worried abt 'a big
no one is worried abt 'a big deal' made out of this injustice. Submarine simply gave a wise and practical advice.
Frank, my understanding is
Frank, my understanding is that Sub wants us to make a big deal, so that her sentence can be reduced (clutching at straws!).
I think its got to the stage
I think its got to the stage where travel & import bans should at least be discussed - not to hurt the general population, but to focus everyone's minds on where things are heading.
There are too many vested interests & official complicitor's (including western) for it to be a government policy, but perhaps some sort of grassroots campaign might have the desired effect?
(desired effect being: Sanity, Fairness, Justice = penalty to fit the crime, and NO doublestandard)
Joy and michael got what I
Joy and michael got what I meant (I'm not worried if my comments are sometimes misread, people come with their own baggage).
If Dar Torpedo's sentence is reduced by half at the Appeal, it's appropriate for her lawyer to begin a process for the Pardon request; they shouldn't wait until the case reaches the Supreme.
Submarine, I don't think it
Submarine, I don't think it will work. Probably the only chance is that she would show her remorse on what she did in the trial, then the appeal court might give some clemency for her. After that, she will serve the sentence without appeling to the final court, wating for pardon, then she might have a chance to have her time halved again. But as long as she is shrained as a convicned political criminal she would not dare to do that.
Everyday that Darunee serves
Everyday that Darunee serves in jail is an indictment of the putsch.
They who claim to be "defending the King", who are cynically trying to lay all this egregious oppression at the doorstep of the palace, are the PAD, the military, and the Democrat Party.
The King is not responsible for Darunee's unconscionable prison sentence.
The PAD, the military, and the Democrat Party are wholly responsible for it, and for dragging HM the King into the middle of their foul works as well.
As the entire world looks on at Thailand, aghast at the spectacle of the eruption of full-blown fascism from the boils of the bloated, rotten political body of the Bangkok "elite", remember always just who are in reality the greatest perpetrators of lèse-majesté : the PAD, the military, and the Democrat Party.
JFL, the criminal code was
JFL, the criminal code was not created by them. The article had been there for more than decades and she was not the first person who was indicted and sentenced.
correction, not "had been"
correction, not "had been" but "has been" there for more than decades. Maybe you mixed up Takhor's case, which is related to the new computer law, with Daruni's case which has nothing to do with the com law. And she was even not charged by PAD personel, but the chrge was innitiated by the police during Samak time. They had enough evidences because they recorded her speeches every time. She was sentenced for 18 years, with 3 counts each of which bears 6 years. If the police have charged her earlier, she would not have recieved such a wrong sentence.
correction, not "wrong" but
correction, not "wrong" but "long" :)
Pladip, I don't know how much
Pladip, I don't know how much the language of law we can speak of when it comes to Article 112 (it isn't "law" on its own). For Dar Torpedo, while I understand that she doesn't plead guilty as she sees her case being the "battle of idea" (karn tor su tang kham kid, as she put it), it may be wise to point out that those who want to lock her up (obviously not people she targeted in her speech) are far from being ideologists. This is pure politics.
(this is Submarine btw, I'm being German for a week :)
mistyped. I'm Unterseeboot or
mistyped. I'm Unterseeboot or U-Boot.
Hi A. U-boat Yeah, it's not a
Hi A. U-boat
Yeah, it's not a seperate law. That's why I wrote, "the criminal code was not made by them. " I don't know what she exactly said on the red stages. (Yes, this is a problem if we really want to weigh the legitimacy of the verdict.) But I can guess how much offensive things she spoke form the response of red suporters.
My assistance was a red supporter sharing the resentment that the elected government was toppled by the military cuop. And he was a Thaksin admirer mainly because he appreiceated the health care system even though I paid a private health insurance for him. :) He never changed his idea when we were debating the issue. (You know my stance, so what happened between us?) But when it came to Dar Torpaido, he did not hide his disgust on her. He rejected to talk about what she spoke, and just said whenever she started speaking, he left the place.
I am really not sure if the sentece was influenced by the politics. I rather think that this is a solid case with abudant material evidences(the police recorded her speeches), so the court have no choice but to give the sentence according to the criminal code. And because what she did in the public domain was unprecedented, the sentence also became harsher than ordinary cases, I guess. And if she had pleaded guilty and expressed her remorse on her deed as other LM offenders usually do, her sentence could have been 9 years, which is not so different from other cases.
I am not giving my opinon to LM law itself. As I repeatedly wrote in this site, I think it's a matter for Thais to decide. I am just insisting that this trial is not a sheer politics.
"I am not giving my opinon to
"I am not giving my opinon to LM law itself. As I repeatedly wrote in this site, I think it's a matter for Thais to decide"
Plaadip: How can the Thai's decide when they are not even allowed to see the full facts or discuss them?
You are on a very slippery slope IMO.
Hobby, so what are you going
Hobby, so what are you going to do? Foreigners come out and speak for Thais? But how can you represent Thai's oppinion? Do you really believe that the majority of Thais was forced to support the LM law, because the army are threatening them? I simply can't believe that is the case.
They have the right to request the revision of the law, if they really feal that the penalty is too harsh. Leave them alone to make their own decision on the matter.
Plaadip: I repeat: How can
Plaadip: I repeat: How can they make an informed decision if they are not even allowed to see, or discuss the full facts?
Is that the sort of society you want to live in?
(and the sort of repression you want to support & justify?)
Hobby, I think Thais can
Hobby, I think Thais can discuss the LM law without spreading the offensive and profane languages. Some Thais are doing that in Jorn Unparkorn's site, don't they? Or the site had degenerated to an offensive site and had been banned already?
Plaadip: You know full well
Plaadip: You know full well that Thai's cannot speak their minds freely on the internet or in public (whether in a polite manner or otherwise) without fear of being prosecuted/persecuted - why do you carry on this charade???
I will only comment on the
I will only comment on the law.
In the absolutist states, the law to protect the monarch, head of state, is generally pinned with the law of treason. In Thai history, Prince Prisdang (Jumsai clan) who petitioned for a constitution during the reign of king Chulalongkorn fled the country by the treason law, not the lese-majeste law as we know nowadays. Since in the old day, any challenger who wanted to topple the head of the state would have to kill the kings (like Cromwell, etc.), the threat to injure, rather than to insult was at the centre of the treason law. In normal circumstances when the state transited into a constitutional democracy or a democratic republic, one would expect to see the lese-majeste transferred to be coded with the Liable law which practically deals with offences and defamatory insults. There's a problem with the law itself when it's integrated to the Criminal code. The use of article 112 is getting even more mirky when it is linked with the internal security act. It was this act that prohibited public hearing on Miss Daranee's case; but given the content of her speeches, the closure of the trial was not unreasonable.
Suwicha Thakor was charged with the computer crime act, but convicted and sentenced by the code of article 112.
Debate on the lese-majeste law won't be able to reach a common consensus as its language centres on the institution majority Thais love and hold in high respect. Personal value and passion will always be part of the debater's process of reason. In my opinion, there's a problem with this law; but the reform of it is impossible.
Libel I meant.
Libel I meant.
A.Submarine. I understood why
A.Submarine. I understood why you are sticking to the point. (a seperate law or an article of the criminal code.) Thank you.
JFL - YES!!!! Hobby, I hope
JFL - YES!!!!
Hobby, I hope you're not proposing trade & travel sanctions by foreign governments. I don't think they've done the slightest bit of good in Burma, nor do they seem to have had any effect in Cuba - except that they have created a lot of misery for ordinary people who have a struggle to live without the extra pressures created by sanctions. Anyway, it's most unlikely that anyone really cares enough to do anything. Thailand's not of strategic importance & there's not enough oil or natural gas here for anyone to be bothered.
Unfortunately, it seems that both trade & travel are going down anyway at the moment, as a result of the economic slump. Travel will probably diminish further due to all the bad press Thailand is getting re. human rights issues & the criminality of 'law enforcers' (murders by policemen, police & govt official-operated stand-over rackets targetting tourists, etc.), as well as the illogicality & peculiarity of the operation of the justice system (Santika, the Phai/Canadian murder trial, the ways governments change, etc.)
The perception that Thailand is 'unsafe' is growing. This is understandable. If Thailand wanted to do well in the world, it would be putting a lot of energy into fixing this stuff up, not wasting it on idiotic crap like gaoling people for saying silly things & refusing to stand up for the Royal Anthem.
If Thailand wanted to do well
If Thailand wanted to do well in the world, it would be putting a lot of energy into fixing this stuff up, not wasting it on idiotic crap like gaoling people for saying silly things & refusing to stand up for the Royal Anthem.
Tourist income is for peasants. The PAD/military/Democrat putsch didn't think twice about closing down air-travel between Bangkok/Thailand in pursuit of power. They'd raze the entire country if they thought they'd still be able to sell it out from under the Thai people when they were done.
Michael: IMO, foreign
Michael: IMO, foreign governments are complicit in the Thai 'charade', so there is no way sanctions would come from that quarter anyway.
Interesting that you compare Thailand to Burmu & Cuba, as I was hoping something could be done to wake up the elite thats where Thailand is heading if things continue on this path (or North Korea is maybe even a better example)
It was a desperate suggestion borne from frustration at the way these injustices and double standards keep happening in Thailand - there are blogs, forum comments and the odd newspaper article publicising whats happening, even expressing outrage, but it looks to me that the tourists still keep coming and the exports are still bought.
Avudh of The Nation says Sondhi Limthongkul 'blew the whistle' on Da's inflammatory remarks - yet Sondhi himself is the master of inflammatory remarks and couldn't even care less whether he starts a war with a neighbouring country.
Da says things that nearly everyone in their 'heart of hearts' knows are basically true, yet she's in jail for 18 years, and Sondhi's still spewing his bullshit, free as a bird.
I don't know Da or Suwicha from a bar of soap, but Martin Niemöller's poem is in the forefront of my mind when I think about whats happening in Thailand now
(except 'Political Activists' needs to be substituted in there for one of the religions)
Submarine,Thanks for very
Submarine,Thanks for very informative and insightful post.it helps me see the problem clearer although it seems there's no way out yet.
"Debate on the lese-majeste
"Debate on the lese-majeste law won't be able to reach a common consensus as its language centres on the institution majority Thais love and hold in high respect".
What sort of debate is it when one side is gagged, under threat of ban or lengthy jail terms?
How can it be an informed debate when there is no transparency, when only worship is allowed, and when books that have a different viewpoint are banned?
Resolve those issues, and its quite like that the majority will be able to reach a consensus, but it's unlikely to be the same as the one pronounced/imposed from above!
Hobby:You sound furious but
Hobby:You sound furious but it's understandable.
Yes - I think I am
Yes - I think I am furious.
(I just cannot help but seeing the whole mess as stupid, vindictive, draconian, perverse, retrograde, brutal, cruel, drastic, exorbitant, extreme, heavy-handed, oppressive, rough, severe, strict, callous, harsh, intemperate, pitiless, rigorous, ruthless, savage, tyrannical, unfeeling, unkind, unmerciful, & nonsense)
Thanks to Thesaurus.com :)
But what's the use of being
But what's the use of being furious? I prefer calmness(although u have all the rights to be furious). Only when the mind is free from strong emotions that one can think clearly, IMHO.
We are only human, are we
We are only human, are we not? One can be carried away by something, sometimes!
Of course, one can be carried
Of course, one can be carried away by strong emotions. nothing wrong with that, but the ones who opinions are often listened to the most or taken into consideration by the majority of people are those who express balanced opinions, free from overt anger or frustration.After all this is a forum that invites people to exchange ideas, not venting out frustration all the time. occasional 'carried away' is fine but if too much, things just get boring, because there' nothing new but frustration, frustration and frustration over over and over again.
I dont see this as a matter
I dont see this as a matter of thinking clearly or not - the punishment does not fit the crime - its obvious, perfectly clear, and anyone who says otherwise are the ones who are NOT thinking clearly.
But what's the use of
But what's the use of expressing anger and frustration???
so u are the one who thinks
so u are the one who thinks 'the most clearly' and expresses the most succint opinion/ pov, eh?
So who are u to control the
So who are u to control the way other people think??Everyone has to be as frustrated and as furious as u otherwise the are just not good enough?
I have no reason to doubt
I have no reason to doubt that Thais are learning fast these days when internet and other channels of communication are handily available. Changes are inevitable, free speech will eventually prevail in Thailand as well. What had taken decades in the former Warsaw pact countries would take here perhaps several years. Thai people who work for their daily bowl of rice should not be afraid of their own shadows.
It's a bit funny that some
It's a bit funny that some forigners tend to think they know Thailand more than Thais, and never doubt the premise as though it were predetermined. Where does their conviction come from? Funny.
It's a bit funny that some
It's a bit funny that some forigners tend to think they know Thailand more than Thais, and never doubt the premise as though it were predetermined. Where does their conviction come from? Funny.
Aaaareyaaa.........Sorry for
Aaaareyaaa.........Sorry for doble posting again. Why did it happen?
Somsak, I'm Thai , but I
Somsak, I'm Thai , but I really don't know my country. I can criticize Thailand but it' sometimes hurtful to hear so many negative comments abt my own country. To have the 'truths' throw at yr face, to be forced to face all the garbage, to be accused of being brainwashed and not caring enough abt fellow Thais who are matyrs and ready to die for their beliefs, to be reminded again and again that u are a coward.
Joy - I think we have all
Joy - I think we have all seen enough of your comments here to know that you are NOT part of the problem in Thailand, and you are not a coward - please don't be so hard on yourself.
Some of us just focus on the negative - there are also many positives about your country, and most of us foreigners would not bother commenting about Thailand if we did not care about the country, and the Thai people that are special to us:)
who want positive comments or
who want positive comments or praises?
"Thai people who are special
"Thai people who are special to us" sounds a bit too sentimental, isn't it?:-) so Thai people who are brainwashed, lacking in critical thinking, allowing injustice to take place before their very eyes without doing anything could be 'special' as well?:-) what a privilege!
Stupid, vindictive,
Stupid, vindictive, draconian, perverse, retrograde, brutal, cruel, drastic, exorbitant, extreme, heavy-handed, oppressive, rough, severe, strict, callous, harsh, intemperate, pitiless, rigorous, ruthless, savage, tyrannical, unfeeling, unkind, unmerciful, & nonsense.
OK, please tell me which of the above do not apply to the way LM is administered in Thailand?
anyone with with a common
anyone with with a common sense knows 'how to feel' abt this law. no need to dictate our attitude towards it.we are not that stupid or that brain-washed to think for ourselves.
Hobby, you may be right. But
Hobby, you may be right. But it's the way u say it that upset people like me. But I know i should apologize for trying to control the way people express themselves and not being able to accept them even if they may say the truth.
anyway, i know i'm in the wrong ( for verbally abusing u and Dr j. I apologize.
No worries & thanks Joy (it
No worries & thanks Joy
(it is an emotional issue, so I will try to be more sensitive in future - but sensitivity is not my strong point:)
Hobby, I'd say that trep and
Hobby, I'd say that trep and you are equally passionate.
Love and passion make the world go round. I don't mind passionate ones.
We may be equally passionate,
We may be equally passionate, but the major difference in this discussion is that he's not compassionate and he's WRONG :)
Sorry, obviously I still have
Sorry, obviously I still have to work to do on the sensitivity side of things :)
"It's a bit funny that some
"It's a bit funny that some forigners tend to think they know Thailand more than Thais, and never doubt the premise as though it were predetermined. Where does their conviction come from? Funny. "
No, I do not think foreigners know Thailand more than Thais, they just offer different perspective. Indeed, a different point of view can be sometimes quite hilarious and even embarrassing, but as long as we learn to listen and appreciate things that sound weird to our ears and be self critical if needed then we are on the right path. Unfortunately, nor Thai schools or parents teach that their children.
I quote " Unfortunately, nor
I quote " Unfortunately, nor Thai schools or parents teach that their children."
Do u mean no Thai school or parents teach that to their children?
are u that sure?? I suppose u are not Thai?
Be self-critical? I suppose this applies to both those who are criticized and those who deliver criticisms of others as well.
why does the criticism of
why does the criticism of Thailand have to come with didactic tone? we Thai are children who need to be taught a lot of things westerners had learned ages ago?
Oh, but maybe we are! Do
Oh, but maybe we are! Do tell. we don;t know a thing. we have to follow 'western ideals' of 'freedom' 'democracy' and 'equality'. we have to be open-minded, must not reject any criticisms otherwise we will be seen as overly defensive and unable to be self-critical (unlike people in the West:-))
No, Joy, you are doing fine,
No, Joy, you are doing fine, you can stand up for yourself certainly. Sorry for being overly didactic, it`s my mistake if I`ve been generalizing a bit here. But there is no need to divide people as Westerners and those from the East (perhaps). Though I am painfully aware that many people still do that and see democracy and free speech as some kind of `import from the West`. I say neither democracy or free expression can be imported, repackaged and sold at the local market as a `Western delicacy`. After all there are plenty of totalitarian tendencies within Western nations as well, it`s just some values are universal, and I am sure, Joy, you know that too. And I`m being didactic again... Can`t help it, right?
I C, I do apologize.I have
I C, I do apologize.I have been swept by very strong emotion and can;t stop myself.
"why does the criticism of
"why does the criticism of Thailand have to come with didactic tone?"
Maybe we have learned from your country's 'puu yai'
:)
no need to smile.
no need to smile.
I don;t understand
I don;t understand 'understatement'. If u want to get yr point across, just say it, explain it.There's a lot of space here. Understatement does not work with a Thai like me. English is not my first language.